My induction, as I can remember it (pretty clearly)

Will methadone and buprenorphine together cause withdrawal? How do I stop precipitated withdrawal? What dose of buprenorphine is best? Do I have to be in withdrawal to start Suboxone?
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My induction, as I can remember it (pretty clearly)

Post by jonathanm1978 » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:46 am

Let me start by saying this story is quite aged. I've been fresh & clean for over 3 years now...but I'm hitting anniversaries right now for my I'll post my story while I still remember it as well as I do right now..

It was Christmas 2007. Since August of that same year, my wife and had (the only partner I'd ever had, the only girl I'd ever been with, married at age *me* 19 and *her* 17...had been each others only love..
Except for I had found another love. By August of '07, I was cheating on my wife, and my family...with a pill. I had found Oxycontin. 80mg ..time release, old style. At first, my pills started off as many people..wisdom teeth a couple of years before...a knee surgery a year or two later...and liking the "energy."
That intensified with Oxycontins. I followed the advice given to me by another user of Oxycontin. Took and cut the pill, into 1/4 pieces actually. And then I ORALLY took 1/4 of an 80mg Oxycontin. so I was getting a 20-shot of OC directly. Felt, felt frigging GREAT. My thoughts: "I'm wonderful..I'm a good guy, just need a little something extra for energy. I do better when I'm doing this, I talk more, and I'm more social." Ok, it's acceptable because I gave myself ALL the excuses necessary to get through the guilt. I had myself convinced that I wasn't doing anything "really" bad, even though I was buying them on the street, illegally, from a pill dealer. "That's not TOO bad."
I was buying them on the street, illegally, from a police-known dealer.

and I know this. Still..I was only coming to visit, if I got caught. No big deal.

The worst lie an addict convinces themselves of..."no big deal." And then, "I'm not really hurting anyone."

Although, not "hurting" anyone at that time was me, my wife, and my 3 kids living with her parents..because I couldn't afford to pay bills and support my habit. So I WAS hurting someone. My FAMILY. Brushed's not THAT bad. It'll all be ok, I won't go TOO far with it. <<<Another>>>>> Forward....

One month later, this girl moves in. Her understanding, due to my lying, was that we had been working on divorce for 3 or 4 months (truth = 1 month). It was October, I had a different job, making barely $11 an hour, and struggled to keep my addiction...but I also wanted that closeness with someone (MY WIFE..but couldn't have her), and pills made me some sex-crazed guy who only cared about getting laid. The girl moved in here with me...and now I had it. I had to brag, and show my wife that someone else was willing to take me AND MY PILLS. She knew someone who was living here was doing other things, like sexually, and this hurt her in ways I'll never be able to cry enough and hear the words "I forgive you" coming from her. Revenge sex. Doesn't matter who's receiving it, there's not any feeling there, but the person getting it feels vindicated.

Now, mid-November..Christmas is coming. And much to my liking, this new girl has EXCELLENT credit! MORE PILLS FOR ME!
I went off the deep end, once she gave me free reign of her social and personal info, I opened accounts with her, and we had money EVERYWHERE. I convinced her to even buy me a bike...brand new, 2006 Honda Shadow Sabre with .1 mile on it. YES! Pills, motorcycle, MORE PILLS...I was rolling. CREDIT ABUNDANTLY!
But I had gone so far into mixing pills, that I lost ANOTHER job...because I couldn't stay awake at work to actually DO MY JOB. Oops. We'll live on CREDIT..I'll get a job soon. "I don't know when, just SOON, OK?"....ok, time to eat pills.
By this time, I had been snorting Oxycontin 80's...3 or 4 a day. He runs out? OK...Give me those 25mg IRs then. NONE of those either? Well damn...give me some crappy lortabs then, AND CALL ME ASAP when you get Oxys!!!
Christmas was a blur. On and off talks with soon-to-be ex-wife...she knew something..she knew that I had not quit pills...
But I didn't care..she was gone. She was the jilted ex. I was "moving on."
After Christmas, the girl living here KNEW something was wrong, just wouldn't say anything, and finally it came to a head one day...December 27. She asked, "did you and Misty split up because you were doing pills...?"

"Yes" was my reply.

And in return, the next question, "You are still doing them, aren't you?"

....long pause, me just staring at her...and she asked again.

Damn. Time to face facts, I guess...but first, let me go snort 1/2 an 80mg oxy. I had heard of this drug called suboxone. The person that first told me back in August to try Oxycontin, she had cleaned up and got on Suboxone. And believe it or not, she wouldn't take my phone calls anymore. The last time I talked to her, she told me I should try Suboxone, that she felt GREAT, and that I needed help.
Ok..won't talk to her no more, she's crimping my style of the high I'm enjoying.

Then, I finally had to explain the withdrawals and all to THIS girl too. I told her that I could NOT just quit, I had tried....made me deathly sick..
So for now, she was somewhat "OK" with me keeping it up...but she was calling these places for rehab. NO...I don't want inpatient. (No, I want to do it on MY standards)...but I was going to find an excuse for EVERY possible avenue she found for me...because deep down, she DID care for me...she was here because she "THOUGHT" I loved her...but that was only wordplay on my part.
She made me call the methadone clinic, the only one I could find that had Suboxone treatment. They talked to me for nearly an hour, told me that I sounded like a GREAT candidate for suboxone treatment. Then told me the details....

I needed to be tested, and piss with hydrocodone in my I had to keep using until 3 weeks later when I had an appointment (that was how I saw that)...
Then, when I came in and pissed dirty, I would be sent home with NOTHING...and couldn't take NOTHING for 48 hours. I needed to be IN WITHDRAWALS and come back while I was in them.
I don't want to even get off the couch when I'm in withdrawals, must less drive (or ride) for an hour to some clinic...
But I HAD to try...I was already starting to get tired of the pill game by this time. I saw my wife, and had to watch her from a distance, as I thought she was moving on with her life. (that will come in just a few)...and it hurt. That was MY wife..because we hadn't finalized the divorce yet...I was STILL married to this woman..and I found it hard to watch her trying to date and move away from ME!

Time for treatment...

I went to the clinic....paperwork...I was still dirty, so I was ok that first day...but I knew when I left, I could not do any pills...and that began 2 days of agony. Going from Wednesday, being high, to 48 hours later on Friday, being in DT's...I was like a hornet..
Taking SCALDING hot that my skin was red when I would get out..because I couldn't get warm. Then I was sweating...up and down like that for a WHOLE 48hrs. Friday morning came...INDUCTION TIME!!!
Be there at 6am they had told me....
This girl drove me. I had already told my wife of the treatment I was going to try...which gave her a spark of hope.
Notice I said, hope...she wanted me to be clean for my they didn't have a dad that was abusive, or mean...

But it wasn't enough for HER. But when I told her of the treatment, I didn't care...I wasn't interested in sex with anyone anymore. EVEN HIGH...I still wasn't having any kind of sexual contact with a female that lived here. From January onward, and I'll go further into that in a minute...

Induction time came, and we pulled into the clinic...I WAS THERE...I made it 48 hours with NO pills in my system..ok.
I was mad, I was irritable..all the things that pills made me I had quit and was needing SOMETHING in my system to alter my make me smile, to make me feel WARM. I had on 2 long-sleeved shirts and a VERY thick jacket...I WAS COLD! But my back was sweating!!
And oh, the bathroom time....I thought I was going to defecate my insides out of me. WHY!! Why does something that makes me feel SO so much when I didn't have it in my system???

So induction was started on me. Wait. And wait. hours....and hours...took my money...I got to the clinic at 5:45am sharp....EARLY. Wait until 6am..they opened. PLEASE HAVE HEAT@!!!!
Sat there, inside, waiting until 8:15am...paperwork...took my $240 payment of CASH ONLY. Go wait some more. And wait.
And wait. FINALLY CALLED MY NAME. Weight. Blood pressure. Temp. (COME ON PEOPLE)...nurse said "how are you feeling?"
Bluntly, I said "LIKE SHIT". She laughed. My thoughts were, if I hit her, can I get away before the cops get here? This b##ch just laughed at me...I AM SICK!!!
She said, "Well, we can tell you are DEFINITELY in the doctor will see you in a just a minute, please have a seat right outside his door."
There was NO ONE in there with him...and I waited. And I waited.
FINALLY..the door opened, and the counselor/psychiatrist that had accepted me and told me I was a good candidate...took me in with the doctor..and with the girl that I was living with. He talked..I didn't want to talk back...but he forced me to answer questions. FINALLY...the guy wrote something on a piece of paper..and told me to leave.
WAIT A want me to LEAVE?
No. Go up to CVS, up the road about 2 miles, and fill the prescription of #18 8mg-2mg suboxone. DO NOT TAKE ANY OF THEM!!!
You HAVE to come back here, with the unopened prescription, and let me administer the medicine to you. Sign this piece of paper saying you agree to that.....

So I signed, and left. Got it!
I looked at the the big, orange-looking pill inside. I even opened the bottle and smelled it...oranges...yuck.
Closed it, didn't take any..went back..and WAITED AGAIN. 30 minutes later, the doctor calls me again...this time, I was going to get relief and I KNEW IT. I went in, sat down..STILL wearing 2 long-sleeved shirts and a thick jacket...
He took the bottle from me, opened it, and counted. They were all there...untouched. He broke a pill in half, and handed it to me. Told me to place the half under my tongue and hold it.
I remember reaching for it...thinking "here we go"..and took it from him.
I remember the first taste of it. It actually quenched my mouth...opposite from what I thought I'd feel from the smell...and I sat with it under my tongue.
I waited.
1 minute..wait..what's that feeling...I think I feel some chills going away..
2 am not as cold...I think I'm feeling a little warmer now.
3 or 4 minutes...I felt muscles that were tensed and stressed starting to relax in my face and legs. My jawbone wasn't clenched as it had been...I felt a little better now...
He asked, and I told him..I still feel cold. So another 1/2 was given to me. That was held and we waited 4 to 5 minutes.
By that time, when the 2nd 5-minute interval was up, I had to start taking off sleeves...ok, it's hot now. Wait a minute, I feel like SMILING. I feel like being a NORMAL guy....what's this this LEGAL?

I had found it. TREATMENT. I could be a success. I KNEW that this was going to work, at that moment, when all of a sudden, the cravings, withdrawals and fears were all just a 5 or 10 minute time frame. I went from hopeless, and from a person who had contemplated suicide as my only way being hopeful for life again...

I was told to come back the following week..but this began a problem..MONEY. For the first time since I had lost my job...the credit train was dry. I had run-up THOUSANDS in credit...and none was left. Barely paying lights and water...but my first Suboxone treatment was covered..we had enough cash for that $240...
Each follow-up visit after that was $160. That was a problem...I could NOT come up with the money every week.
I had enough to go for 3 weeks of treatment.
The first $240 payment covered my first visit and SECOND visit. After that, I had to start paying for the $160 a week. Well, I'll worry about that when the time comes..for now, I feel GREAT!
It was nearly February..and I had a LOT of things that were a mess in my life..and I was beginning to clear my head.

Wasn't long into February when the girl who lived here...her car tore up. We had NO transportation then..except the motorcycle that I had got her to buy when I was high. The bike that I had NO fear of...then..but sober and clean..I would barely drive it over 40mph. It was FAST, and DANGEROUS....and I was scared of it when I was sober. But I have a picture of it's speedometer when I first bought it. I was driving down the road, 95mph, and took a pic with my cell phone of the speedometer. I WAS STUPID!!
So with no way of going, I had to ask my (still) wife if she minded me borrowing her car. She didn't want to, but she obliged. Wow...was I back in good with her? Would she come to my house when the girl wasn't here? I didn't know...but she said yes to using her I had my way of going to treatment. The girl who lived here...once I started rehab..she went to visit her mom and was going for a weekend problem. Did I want to come? Nah..we had just got DSL internet here, in December...and I was content using our new high-speed internet..sitting here at the house. I was going to have my kids that weekend anyway..and it was it was cold..and her mom lived 1.5 hours I would be ok here.
I told the (wife) to bring the kids by whenever she wanted, that I would be here alone...and she briefly asked why..but I told her that the girl was going to visit her mom for the weekend..she would be back like on Monday.
Ok..she brought kids...and left. She was working that weekend, and I had to watch them while she did.
Moving forward...a couple of weeks go by. I made another treatment my meds..boy I was doing ok. But NOW...I was out of more visits at $140 each...I didn't have it. What was I to do? So when it came time, I couldn't manage to borrow the money (anyone who's an addict knows you can't borrow money from friends anymore...)..and I missed my treatment. with that then, maybe I'm ok.
No...I was NOT. Two days later, I was back into pills again. And I went back hard, and Oxycontins. Snorting them like candy...
ah, I got the money for treatment NEXT week...Ok, I'll quit again...and I did this off an on for a couple of weeks. The DR wanted me to make 2 months of steady 1-week visits with NO skips before he would put me on a monthly visit. I couldn't do it.
End of February....I get a phone call from my family in Southern Mississippi. We're having a family reunion. We have NEVER had a family reunion...and I was I DEFINITELY want to go...
What do I do? The girl's car was broken down...blown a head gasket. Not fixable. Not without a LOT of money....So how was I going to go? I didn't know...yet.
The reunion wasn't until April 19, I had a little time. It was the first part of March. After the latest visit to get suboxone...I missed again. Back to pills..same thing as before. Went back hard and fast to Oxycontin. And I was high again...though I missed the being clean...but hey..
The buzz felt good. Another weekend came when the girl went 1.5 hours away to stay with her mom on Friday, Saturday and Sunday nights. And I was staying home again, by myself...(or with the kids). And like last time, I told the (wife) that she could bring kids by whenever...that I was here alone for the weekend. We had chatted on the internet on Friday night..she was VERY inquisitive about my being clean...treatment....etc.
I was on Yahoo IM with the (wife) and the girl, she was online from her mom's house. I told (wife) that we hadn't had sex since mid-December. ...she didnt believe me. I swore..on our children..that I had been sleeping on the couch since December...because I felt kinda disgusted with myself...and we quit talking about it...and I went to bed (on the couch).
Saturday...she was working midnight shift. 11pm to 7am. I had my fix for the weekend in I was good....
Normally when I was high, I would stay up till 2am or 3am..then doze for 3 or 4 hours..and snort again. So Saturday night, I sat down at my computer..put the kids to bed..and chopped up my "powder energy"....
It was about..10pm. Nothing unusual...regular night of me staying up..high..on the computer. Enjoying the new DSL we had just got here...
1am came...and my phone rang. I was, of course, still up. It was (wife). I answered, of course, thinking she got hurt at work...scared to death...
Her words still ring out...."hey, I got knocked off the rest of the shift, and I don't feel like driving to momma's ...can I come sleep on your couch?" I said "well, yeah, you know you can."
and she quickly chimed back, "I said sleep now, it don't mean nothing."
"O.K."..and she was on her way.
She was coming here. To me. To my house..even if it WAS just to sleep...YES. Does she still love me? I don't know. Does she still care? OBVIOUSLY....there's a chance. My heart pounded as I sat here, trying to be nonchalant at the computer...when she came up.
But I was high. And she knew it...because I told her I couldn't afford the treatment. She didn't seem AS miffed about it as she used to be..when she knew I was doing it just because I wanted to be high....
She got here, came inside...still wearing her work uniform. They wore dark blue pants, and dark blue shirts..because it was a printing press operation, and she worked in the bindery..where comic books and such were put together..
When she came up to the door, I got up from the computer, and went to greet her. Followed to the couch where we both sat down on opposite ends. She took off her work boots, socks..and propped herself up on the couch...then put her feet in my lap. I briefly massaged her feet a bit, and she asked if she could have one of my old T-shirts to she could take of that uniform shirt. I didn't think much of it, and said yea. I went to the back of the house and returned with a find her topless on my couch. No shirt, no bra...and I knew was on.
Passion took over, I could VERY much sense her lust...she was VERY ready, and willing. And she told me, just before our bodies met, that she hadn't been with ANYONE in the 7 months we were all. So I wasn't totally prepared for what I encountered...
But as we...entwined..I remembered all came flooding back to me. Her taste...the woman that I had took virginity she had done the same with me.. Of course, neither of us were real marathon-winners with this particular bout of sex...we had both been pent-up for some time...and the release..both for me and her...was WONDERFUL. I remember falling into her arms as things ended..and dozing for a bit...but alas, we had kids in the bedroom asleep and I couldn't spend the night "inside" we dressed and snuggled on the couch until morning..sleeping mostly the rest of the night.
My mind was ablaze..though I WAS high...I was also confused. I wasn't confused about who I loved..I KNEW that I still loved her..not a doubt in my mind. She was my one and only..and HOW THE HELL could I sleep with someone else??!@?!?
But morning came..she left...and had to go prepare for work the next evening. We both got our "satisfaction."
Was it still over? Did I need to tell the girl not to come back here? What did I need to do?

Decisions that shouldn't be made when a person is high on opiates.

I'm going to shorten this story, as the last bits are not as meaningful....
The family reunion....I told the girl living here that if she didn't want to go, she didn't have to. She said she didn't know my family...blah she would go stay with her mom on April 19, 20, and 21...and I could just take the kids and enjoy my family that weekend Mississippi. But I still had a car dilemma. HOW do I get there? I pointed out to my (wife) that I needed to go to this family reunion...and she knew that my family had NEVER had a reunion in all the years we were I asked her...can I borrow your car?
No answer at first...
But when it came time to leave...the wife agreed to let me use her car. Lo and behold, i had enough money to get my Suboxone on the day before my trip to the I went to treatment. I was going to be CLEAN for my family, AND MY WIFE...IF...IF she would go down there with me.
Time to head out to Mississippi. The girl living here had her mom come to get her. She was loading up her moms car when my (wife) pulled up. Was she going with me? Don't know. I proceeded to load up my stuff, and the kids clothes...and got everything ready to take...
When I opened the trunk, I noticed there was a large luggage back stuffed under everything, out of site for the girl..but not out of site for I was looking for clues, since the wife would not tell me if she was planning to go with me.
We left out...and I got my answer. I asked once we got down the road about 2 miles..."well, you're going aren't you..."
She said..."you didn't see my stuff in the trunk just now? I know you did, you looked right at it..."

And it was on. I had a wonderful drive ..6 hours...ahead..I had my wife with kids with me...
We were a family..once again. Even if it was only for a trip.
And when we came home on that Monday morning at 2am...we all came back here to "OUR" house. The girl wasn't coming home until Monday evening it didn't matter. We got out of the car after our GREAT trip..came inside..and went to bed.
And we "went to bed" like we did back in March....passionately, full of lust for each other...something that had been missing from our sex life due to the pills....there it was again.
I had her twice before the sun rose that Monday morning...and it was like...the first time all over again. And I told her, at the end of our sexual "session"...that I did still love her, and I was VERY wrong for doing her the way I had done. She told me "let's dont talk about that now...let's get some sleep."

The girl came home that Monday evening...but I made the decision to boot her ...and the wife and I have been INSEPARABLE ever since. We're closer now than we were before the we were back when we first got married.

I LOVE my wife, DEARLY..and she's pregnant again right now...
She loves me. We complete each other. She was hurt that I went to someone else, and sexually at that...but she never did. She told me she could not bring herself to have sex with someone else. That made me hurt more..but I showed her how much I loved her by cleaning up my life and dropping COMPLETELY...the pills. FOR GOOD.
I quit playing around with treatment, I found a doctor that took me monthly from the start..and only charged me $110 per visit..and I began my own therapy..with my family, kids and in-laws as my support system.

There are lots of other "little" details that I didnt include..but for longevity purposes, I'll save that stuff for later.

There's MY story...I hope someone finds inspiration, or can relate..or sees something that might help them. If I died right now, I'd die knowing that I'm loved by my wife...and kids. And my kids aren't scared of daddy anymore..and they love their daddy.

And if my wife died, God forbid!!!!
I know what I would, and would NOT do. I would NOT have another woman. I cant. I only love one person..and it's the truest, deepest love that I've ever known. I do NOT want anyone else. I'd be content at 33 years old, raising my kids, and remembering my wife for the great woman that she was..
That is IF.......
something happened.

Let's hope that doesn't...I pray for that NOT to happen to either of us so we aren't faced with life without each other.

More later.

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Wow what a story

Post by finallyachance » Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:29 am

What a wonderful story. It wood have been a real bummer if you two would have been forever ruined. And sadly so usually it is irreparable harm and the couples never are able to reunite etc....The children end up paying the most too. I am sure I'm not telling you anything you don't already know but you are one of the lucky few. And....Congrats on the new baby.
Wishing you the best in love and life. Finallyachance.

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Post by Breezy_Ann » Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:30 am

That was like reading a novel, it had me on the edge of my seat. I am a sucker for a love story with a happy ending. It's weird how the things that rip some apart can make others closer. My husband and I have never split but we have had a rough couple of years and we too are much closer because of it.

It is so great that you found your way back to each other. There is nothing more important and satisfying than love. Congratulations on your coming addition!

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Great Stuff

Post by JustMike » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:00 pm

All through reading I was rooting for a happy ending! Good for Both of you! All the Best!


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Post by Jimmy » Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:14 pm

congrats to you! I know the only way I could write something that long and involved would be - oh never mind. Congrats again!

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Re: wow

Post by jonathanm1978 » Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:46 am

Jimmy wrote:congrats to you! I know the only way I could write something that long and involved would be - oh never mind. Congrats again!
I know that I would not be where I am at today if not for the dabbling in treatment that I did back in January-February-March of 2008. By that time, the toll had been taken on me. I can show/post pictures of myself from that time-frame, and pictures of me now...and you'd be shocked.

Here's a picture of me WHILE doing Oxycontin. I had been high on Opiates for MONTHS here, in this photo.

Here's me, right now...taken last week sometime.

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Post by jonathanm1978 » Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:07 am

You can obviously see the difference. The first pic, I'm glazed, like a honey-baked ham. Glossed-over eyes, sunk-in healthy look to my face at all.

Granted, I'm not a very big person as far as my build..I've always been mostly average size..but I became skin & bones when I was pilled.

Stupid shit .....done it. Close calls with law? yep. Friends who watched me drowning in my own self-indulgence...of course.

But I guess my story is one of a VERY few that has a damn good ending...though my story isn't over..
It's not really much of a struggle for me these days to maintain long as I can do what I just took a pause from typing this to the very least once per day. Right now, I'm on my 75 8mg-2mg film per month, and I'm happy. I could probably still do O.K with 1 or 1 1/2 per day, which I've actually done a few times when I would be so busy that I forget to take my meds..but as long as I've got insurance, and as long as Suboxone is being made and available, then I'll probably be on the stuff. I don't want to try and see if I'll make it if I's not worth the risk. Since there's not any long-term studies showing bad things happen with extended use, then I'm at liberty to say that I'll continue use for the rest of my life. I'm to the age now (33) where I have the arthritis and aches and pains of the years showing, or beginning to show..and I'd much rather deal with it this way than to risk what I WAS before, in that 1st photo.

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I hear ya Johnathan Me too.

Post by finallyachance » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:14 am

I honestly am so tired of relapsing I don't see myself taking the risk. I am on methadone which is a bit more worrisome because of clinic bullshit and etc...But I have done it all and failed time after time after time. I know at almost 50 years of age I do not have a lot of relapse left if any. Methadone in a big sense is my insurance policy to living with reasonable consequences in a matter of ways. I know abstinence would be great and even suboxone would be better but unable and failing at both those I will settle with methadone when in compared to my other choice.
Wishing you the best in love and life. Finallyachance.

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Re: I hear ya Johnathan Me too.

Post by jonathanm1978 » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:30 am

finallyachance wrote:I honestly am so tired of relapsing I don't see myself taking the risk. I am on methadone which is a bit more worrisome because of clinic bullshit and etc...But I have done it all and failed time after time after time. I know at almost 50 years of age I do not have a lot of relapse left if any. Methadone in a big sense is my insurance policy to living with reasonable consequences in a matter of ways. I know abstinence would be great and even suboxone would be better but unable and failing at both those I will settle with methadone when in compared to my other choice.
I've found that my family has been my saving grace through it..

When I look at the alternatives to Suboxone and my treatment/recovery...there is no other choice or option for me.
Going back down that path of destruction and devastation isn't even in the same category for me as just isn't there.

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Post by johnscarbrough » Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:08 am

Undoubtedly you made it like a professional.I am greatly inspired to make my own now.I am not a greta reader but your story took my interest .

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