PLEASE HELP! Suboxone not working this time switching from H

What dose of Suboxone do you take? Does your buprenorphine wear off? Do you have opioid withdrawal symptoms?
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PLEASE HELP! Suboxone not working this time switching from H

Post by headycheese » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:44 am

Hello all, I have been on suboxone for 4-5 years, I have switch between suboxone to heroin to suboxone many times back and forth, which I assume is my issue because my brain and receptors are getting used to the switch.. I usually take about 0.2mg because for me thats all I need, I can take 0.2 (about a tenth of a strip maybe even lower) and it completely makes me feel normal...

I was clean for 3-4 years with no heroin just suboxone, I recently 4-5 months releapsed and have been doing betwen .5-1gram of H, and now when I try to go back to suboxone it doesnt help my WDs... I know that 0.2mg isnt gonna cut it for switching back from heroin, so id start with 2mg strip, then another 2 hours later, then another, then another, and eventually I took about 6 2mg strips and did not even phase me, was in the worst WDs imaginable, and it was not precipitated WD, it was the same WD that I had before..

I tried to hold it out and make it through, after 4 days about I couldnt take it and had to relapse...

I went to a detox facility that did phenobarbital detox, and I was in there 4 days and my WDs were so bad that I had to leave and goto the ER.. They werent giving me anything to help besides ibuprofin, visatril or w/e, clonidine, and robaxin muscle relaxer (idk spelling)... anyways when I left the detox my suboxone magically started working again.. So obviously it just takes 4-5 days for my suboxone to start working again...

Well I relapsed again this time I tried going back to the same detox center, and they no longer do phenbaritol, the only do subutext detox now, which since my suboxone isnt working the subutext didnt work either, I didnt even make it the full day I was in such pain that I left to goto ER just so I could get 1 ativan, which didnt help, so I had to relapse again just because of the pain was unbearable.. I cant sleep, I cant lay down, I cant sit down, I cant eat, I vomit constantly, and when I vomit it becomes hard to breath, I get the worst cold sweats imaginable and terrible aches.. Easily a 10/10 for WD symptoms..

Now that the detox center no longer does phenobarb.. I have no idea how to make it the 4-5 days for my suboxone to work again.. I seriously cant bear it, I dont know if I am weak, or if I am sensitive, or if I took suboxone too long, I had a nasty habit 4-5 years ago before I started with fentanyl, heroin, and basically every strong opiate i can get my hand on.. IV and smoking..


Please help what can I do, how can I get my suboxone to work again, what I am doing wrong, what can I do, is there any way I can just make my suboxone get rid of my WDs?? OR is there something I can do just so I can make it 4-5 days until the suboxone starts working again..

I have a feeling that its a comination of my tolerance being over the suboxone cieiling for me, and me switching back and forth too many times so my body is built up a tolerance...

WHAT CAN I DO!? Please these withdrawals are terrible, I relapsed but I basically lost my dealer and I wont be able to pick up anymore H, so I will be withdrawaling extremely hard here in about 2 days... What can I do to make Subs work again, or hold me off until they work again... My mom is going to find out that im using again and itll break her heart, I also have to piss clean because im supposed to goto a job interview soon in a few weeks, I HAVE TO DO THIS... Please help wether im weak, sensitive, or whatever it is I cant take it is 100% unbearabale, I cant get a minute of sleep, and I cant eat, I cant do anything, and my bed is soaking wet from sweating..

Please is there anyone who has experience with this? This isnt the typical suboxone case, I know they work wonders even on extremely high tolerances, theyve worked for me a dozen times swithcing back and forth, but I have switched too many times that it is not working anymore!

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Re: PLEASE HELP! Suboxone not working this time switching fr

Post by headycheese » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:53 am

Id like to add I was at 2 ERs yesterday and a detox facility and havent slept in almost 2 days, eventually I begged my old friend to give me a gram and I basically paid him 50$ just to give me the deal.. I dont have enough money to afford this and I wont be able to do that again.. I seriously dont have any options, I really if I have to go 4-5 days with the withdrawals as bad as they are, I seriously dont think ill make it, id probably goto every ER possible and who knows pay some hobo to knock me out with a baseball bat just so I can sleep.. I dont know why the WDs are that bad, in the past they were no where near this bad. I feel like everytime you switch from H to subs, and back and forth, it gets worse everytime... And now im at a point where my WDs are so bad that I cant even make 4-5 days for suboxone to work again..

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Re: PLEASE HELP! Suboxone not working this time switching fr

Post by BlueLight » Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:02 am

The thing is you’re not really going thru heroin WDs anymore, you’re going thru Fentanyl and likely methadone WD. Your choices at this point are pretty clear;

1.). Stick out 4 to 5 days in WDs and plan on using 24 mg of Suboxone
2.). Try the Bernese Method of micro dosing Suboxone
3.). Get 3 days worth of short acting opiates like Oxycodone in order to detox from your heroin / Fentanyl cocktail and then switch to Suboxone
4.). Enroll in a methadone program that also offers Suboxone. They are experienced with moving people from heroin to methadone and then onto Suboxone.
5.). Go to a skilled detox/treatment center along the lines of a Hazelden Betty Ford center with experienced addiction doctors on staff.

Those are your options IMO.

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Re: PLEASE HELP! Suboxone not working this time switching fr

Post by headycheese » Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:37 am

BlueLight wrote:The thing is you’re not really going thru heroin WDs anymore, you’re going thru Fentanyl and likely methadone WD. Your choices at this point are pretty clear;
What do you mean? I have never taken methadone before? And I havent taken fentanyl in over 5-6 years... When I mentioned fentanyl I meant I did that before I started suboxone 5 years ago, and had no problem transitioning back then...

What is the bermese method?

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Re: PLEASE HELP! Suboxone not working this time switching fr

Post by jennjenn » Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:40 am

Headycheese I feel so bad for you, I can just feel your panic. For the life of me I cannot understand after you had such a horrible time before this time getting bk on suboxone, why you went bk to H again..... after all that suffering why on earth did you go bk without realizing it’s going to be the same suffering? I know addiction makes us do crazy things but please let this be your last time of going on this nightmare ride.

It isn’t ever going to be easy, it’s always going to be somewhat available so you have to get yourself something different this time. Once you do get bk on suboxone (or whichever path you take), do counseling, meetings, change people places things, do a complete elimination of things in your life, because you cannot keep doing this.

It doesn’t matter if your dealer is gone or your money is gone, those things are temporary and an addict will ALWAYS find a way around those temporary obstacles. Plus you’re going for a job interview soon, if you start making more money again will you go bk out when you hold your paycheck in your hands? See, there’s always going to be a way to use, but you have to get so deep in your recovery that you can resist those things.

I think you’re having tolerance mismatch. I think your tolerance is so high that it’s taking the suboxone days to make you feel better. As long as the H you’re taking isn’t cut with fentanyl, then I think you’re having tolerance mismatch and not PW. Tolerance mismatch is just simply where your tolerance is so high from the heroin that the suboxone isn’t making you feel better right away. The reason your having to go a few days is because you’re laying off the H long enough for the suboxone to finally start making you feel better. To be honest, even if it’s PW or tolerance mismatch, it’s still the same solution that you just keep taking suboxone (as prescribed not more than prescribed) until you start finally feeling better.

You may need at least 16mg a day, take it all at once, see if that helps any at all. Do you have a doctor that is prescribing you the buprenorphine, I can’t remember if you said or not sorry? If not then please get one. A doctor and the treatment that comes along with that is so much better than trying to do it on your own. You should be dealing with 8mg strips not 2mg. You should be taking a good standard dose for ppl with H tolerances and to me that’s around 16mg. These 2mg strips are going to disappear quick for as many milligrams you should probably be taking. So definitely get a doctor if you don’t have one, or if you do but don’t think he/she is a good dedicated doctor then look for one that is.... because you’re going to need really good one on one care.

Now what I think your options are for right this second to get you through the days of misery until you can start feeling better from your suboxone......

• Have you tried gabapentin (neurotin and I don’t know that I’m spelling it right)? This medication can help wonders for withdrawal symptoms. I’m serious, it’ll actually make you feel a good bit better and can help get ya through the days.

• As BL mentioned, you can try taking short acting opiates for a few days. Medications like oxycodone or morphine may stave off withdrawal symptoms a bit while you’re going through this time period.

• Another option that I’m not sure if you have explored or not is methadone maintenance instead of buprenorphine. With methadone, there’s no having to be in withdrawal. It’s a full opiate and they dose you at your tolerance. It can be a lot more supervised and honestly I think that would be good for you and your routine of relapsing. I don’t know if you’re in an area where you can find a methadone clinic, but if you are, please think about that option because that may be exactly what you need.

At the end of the day, sometimes there’s just no easy way to avoid the some withdrawal. As much as we try, sometimes we have to go through it to get to the other side. I remember having to go 32 hours before my induction and I couldn’t eat or sleep, all I could do was pace bk and forth. In rehab I went without sleep for a long time and I couldn’t eat hardly at all for 2 weeks.... there just isn’t an easy way sometimes, but the end result is worth it. Just whatever you do, do NOT go bk to H. The only thing you’re doing to yourself by going bk to that is prolonging the suffering. It’ll take you straight bk to square one every single time. You don’t want that. Imagine going bk to the starting line every single time you go bk to H.

Sorry I typed a book! I just want ya to feel better!
Jennifer

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Re: PLEASE HELP! Suboxone not working this time switching fr

Post by BlueLight » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:30 am

headycheese wrote:
BlueLight wrote:The thing is you’re not really going thru heroin WDs anymore, you’re going thru Fentanyl and likely methadone WD. Your choices at this point are pretty clear;
What do you mean? I have never taken methadone before? And I havent taken fentanyl in over 5-6 years... When I mentioned fentanyl I meant I did that before I started suboxone 5 years ago, and had no problem transitioning back then...

What is the bermese method?
Story, got you confused with an east coast poster...all the heroin out east is cut with Fentanyl and have recently seen methadone. I forgot you are using BTH...not to say that can’t be cut as well.

The Bernese Method....

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4959756/

https://www.bcpharmacy.ca/news/microdos ... ese-method

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Re: PLEASE HELP! Suboxone not working this time switching fr

Post by BlueLight » Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:02 pm

Headycheese, I was rereading your posts from a little over two weeks ago on 3/13, did you go 4 days and get on Suboxone and then relapsed since then, or did you never make the transition? It’s hard to follow your timeline. Is that when you went in for the unsuccessful detox of 4 days?

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Re: PLEASE HELP! Suboxone not working this time switching fr

Post by headycheese » Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:32 pm

jennjenn wrote:Headycheese I feel so bad for you, I can just feel your panic. For the life of me I cannot understand after you had such a horrible time before this time getting bk on suboxone, why you went bk to H again..... after all that suffering why on earth did you go bk without realizing it’s going to be the same suffering? I know addiction makes us do crazy things but please let this be your last time of going on this nightmare ride.
Thank you so much for your response, I appreciate it more than you know...


TO be 100% honest I lost my job, I was kicked out of my house, and just was depressed after being sober for 4 years.. And the detox place I went was free, I thought my suboxone would work, and if it didnt i could always goto the detox, but I did not count on them changing protocols to subutext.. I know its stupid and I swear to god if I just get back on suboxone im never gonna make this mistake again... Im starting graduate school in fall, possibly even summer classes if I get in in time, I get good grades and everthing I just had a mistake with this... My mom really cares about it too, she new I relapsed 4 months ago, but it would break her heart if she found out again I just wanna get clean on my own so she doesnt have to know..

I have not tried gabapentrin, I think my roomate has some kind of gaba supplement though, i forget what its call pharaben or gababen or something like that..

I am against methadone, but im afraid because im so sensitive with withdrawals that ill just get stuck on methadone, ive heard alot of horror stories on methadone, I just want to get my suboxone to work again..

I would 100% try to the oxycodone taper method for a few days just to get rid of the H, but I dont know any way of getting opiates.. Doctors wont give it to me they all know I am on suboxone...

I DO have a suboxone doctor, and I have an appointment with my doctor this wednesday is the earliest i can get in.. I was gonna ask for a higher dose and tell him i relapsed..

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Re: PLEASE HELP! Suboxone not working this time switching fr

Post by headycheese » Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:40 pm

BlueLight wrote:Headycheese, I was rereading your posts from a little over two weeks ago on 3/13, did you go 4 days and get on Suboxone and then relapsed since then, or did you never make the transition? It’s hard to follow your timeline. Is that when you went in for the unsuccessful detox of 4 days?

No no the 4 days was before that point, I went 4 days actually over christmas like 25-29th of december... I have been using this whole time because I could not get my suboxone to work, I was able to go 2.5 days and I took almost 12-14mg of suboxone, and I am very effective at taking it, I hold it in my mouth without swallowing for 30 minutes, then dont eat or drink for another 30 minutes, and make sure I have maximum surface area... But this was over a 4-6 hour period,

and it didnt not help with WDs at all, maybe very slightly but not even to even notice.

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Re: PLEASE HELP! Suboxone not working this time switching fr

Post by headycheese » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:39 pm

i just looked at my friends gaba supplenement its phenibut... both are neurtropics or whatever it is I believe...

Are those the same thing as the gabapentrin thing you mentioned @jen?
Last edited by headycheese on Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: PLEASE HELP! Suboxone not working this time switching fr

Post by BlueLight » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:50 pm

Be careful with the phenibut, it’s highly addictive.

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Re: PLEASE HELP! Suboxone not working this time switching fr

Post by headycheese » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:53 pm

BlueLight wrote:Be careful with the phenibut, it’s highly addictive.
okay jw if its similar ive never personally taken it

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Re: PLEASE HELP! Suboxone not working this time switching fr

Post by jennjenn » Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:09 pm

I don’t know heady, I haven’t ever heard of phenet.... or whatever it was you said. I only know it as gabapentin or neurotin. Now, another thing I always could use was Lyrica to stave off withdrawal..... I don’t know if that’s something you could get but maybe a doctor would prescribe you the neurotin? It’s just something that really really helped me, but my tolerance was for opiates like oxycodone and morphine so your tolerance is probably higher. It’s still worth a shot if you could get any though, it’s very possible it’d make you feel a heck of a lot better.

I’m so glad to hear you have a doctor, I’m really hoping you talk to him/her about upping your dose. I think that will make a pretty significant difference.
Jennifer

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Re: PLEASE HELP! Suboxone not working this time switching fr

Post by Muledunn » Mon May 06, 2019 3:31 am

I have a lot of experience with this. I know I'm too late here, but for anyone else..

You do not need to wait 4 days to transfer from heroin to subbies.

You need to take smaller does especially of bupe, then it acts like a normal opiate. Let it build up.
Edit:
*smaller doses of buprenorphine, as in .4mg at a time. You can do this while using heroin. If you take 8mg of buprenorphine then you'll end up in hellish withdrawals. I learnt the hard way. It's natural to assume more will help


I did this so many times, I had it down to a fine art. It was not helpful to me as it meant I could go on huge H relapses knowing I could painlessly get back on subbies. This enabled me to waste 4 years doing exactly that. H binge, back on subbies to pass piss test, H binge , subbies , clean piss test...over and over and over
Last edited by Muledunn on Sat May 11, 2019 7:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: PLEASE HELP! Suboxone not working this time switching fr

Post by TeeJay » Fri May 10, 2019 4:43 am

Statistics have shown that people who abused pills fare much better in terms of remaining abstinent on Suboxone than people who abuse IV heroin. I personally attribute it to a psychological attraction to the ritual of IV use. Plus taking Suboxone sublingual is psychologically not dissimilar to popping pills, so it's an easier transition, and placates the psychological ritual of oral ingestion a bit more.

At least that's my theory. Because really there isn't much difference between how heroin and drugs like oxycodone / morphine etc act on the brain.

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Re: PLEASE HELP! Suboxone not working this time switching fr

Post by Amy-Work In Progress » Sat May 11, 2019 10:10 am

Teejay, I think you are absolutely right.

In fact, there are studies that show that an IV heroin user who is feeling sick will start to feel better when the ritual of IVing begins. Before the heroin even hits the bloodstream they feel better. Here are a couple of articles that discuss needle fixation.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3047519/

https://ebmh.bmj.com/content/5/1/30

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Re: PLEASE HELP! Suboxone not working this time switching fr

Post by BlueLight » Sat May 11, 2019 2:35 pm

I remember feeling my WDs subside the minute I got my prescription in hand at the docs office, and or when FedEx delivered the box with my meds in it or pharmacist handed my bottle across the counter.

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Re: PLEASE HELP! Suboxone not working this time switching fr

Post by jennjenn » Sun May 12, 2019 11:02 am

During the years I was using the needle, the preparation with the cotton and the crushing the medicine inside the spoon all the way to finding a vein, every single bit of it was part of the high. If I was in awful shape in withdrawal, I literally started feeling better the second I scored. When I switched to only snorting my pills, I’d feel like a mess in the car ride to get the medicine but as soon as I had them in my hand, I didn’t notice much withdrawal at all. Regardless if it’s using the needle or snorting it with a straw or smoking it, the ritual is missed just the same, at least it was for me. The mind part is huge. I did have to adjust to dosing with suboxone because I never took pills by mouth ever, I would always consider it a waste doing it that way because I never did. That part was an adjustment but for me it didn’t bother me too bad. I moved on from that pretty quickly. I had already stopped the needle using a couple years prior though so I don’t know if that made a difference.

Imo cravings involve the entire process even though that process wasn’t as pleasant as the actual high itself..... if that makes sense.
Jennifer

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Re: PLEASE HELP! Suboxone not working this time switching fr

Post by Ryan Ryan Ryan » Fri May 31, 2019 2:18 am

I was recently addicted to Lyrica and the suboxone made the effects much stronger and gave me a super high. My mum gave me a dying wish "Please get sober before I die"
So I went cold turkey after an addiction of 14 300mg lyrica pills a day. I used to take them all at once.
The withdrawals nearly drove me to suicide as I had the sweats and these really horrible and nasty nightmares that nearly destroyed me inside. I was literally bed-ridden for a week as the fatigue was so bad.

But I made it. I've now been sober for 145 days and my mum now no longer looks at me with dread and shame in her eyes. She's now proud of me for being a battler and now living a decent sober life.
You too can do this. The drugs will destroy you in the end. If COURTNEY LOVE can do it, so can anyone!!

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Re: PLEASE HELP! Suboxone not working this time switching fr

Post by BlueLight » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:40 am

Ryan Ryan Ryan wrote:I was recently addicted to Lyrica and the suboxone made the effects much stronger and gave me a super high. My mum gave me a dying wish "Please get sober before I die"
So I went cold turkey after an addiction of 14 300mg lyrica pills a day. I used to take them all at once.
The withdrawals nearly drove me to suicide as I had the sweats and these really horrible and nasty nightmares that nearly destroyed me inside. I was literally bed-ridden for a week as the fatigue was so bad.

But I made it. I've now been sober for 145 days and my mum now no longer looks at me with dread and shame in her eyes. She's now proud of me for being a battler and now living a decent sober life.
You too can do this. The drugs will destroy you in the end. If COURTNEY LOVE can do it, so can anyone!!
While applaud you getting clean....YAY!!!......What you did was very dangerous. Going cold turkey off of Lyrica (pregabalin) or Neurontin (gabapentin) from a high dose is playing with fire. You could have easily died or had massive complications from seizures. Both meds were originally developed for epilepsy and anti-seizures. You need to taper off of them over the course of a few weeks.

Again, CONGRATULATIONS!

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