Straight from the pits of HELL

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SubsGiftfromSatan
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Straight from the pits of HELL

Post by SubsGiftfromSatan » Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:28 pm

My husband has been addicted to suboxone for 3 years. Taking 16 mg/day. This drug-totally changed him and turned him into an emotionless zombie. Apathetic to the max! He is not the same person at all! He had been tapering with the help and guidance of a psychiatrist.. he was 10 days completely off suboxone and after the 4th day detoxing on Subs started taking 15 mg Percocet max x 5 days... This was to help with the withdrawal and also he needed to be on something to enter rehab. He goes into rehab and they immediately put him on 4mg of Subutex! Even though he had been strongly coached on not to take it and the rehab center knew the history and knew that Subutex was not supposed to be an option! I am beyond pissed at this point! They started him on 4 mg for 3 days then 2 mg for 2 days. Is there hope at this point! He was only going for 3 days detox and then IOP and now he is staying an extra week, but he will only be off Subutex for 6 days when he is released! I am terrified for when he gets out b/c the 10 days detoxing off this **** was a nightmare! He was a crying emotional train wreck, suicidal, extreme mood swings, and violent! I feel like this very expensive recovery center totally sabotaged his recovery as soon as he stepped foot in that building! This drug stole my husband's soul and I am not sure that he will ever be the same! I am a nurse practitioner and I had no idea the implications this drug has on humans! I had NO IDEA that my husband was even using suboxone! He totally disengaged from our family and literally barely spoke to me for the past year! He never acted high. He was just a total emotionless prick 24/7! I thought he was suffering some mental crisis and kept telling him he needed a psych evaluation! Little did I know! Luckily a family member told me what was going on, finally! I am still in shock! Everyone that says this drug saved their lives is FOS and are feeding the addict brain! PERIOD! I have conducted enough research and spoken to enough providers that work in the field to now understand that suboxone is a gift from Satan straight from the hands of BIG pharma! All these cash only clinics racking in the millions and stealing the souls of some very good people in the process! I pray that my huband/my family can survive this!

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rule62
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Re: Straight from the pits of HELL

Post by rule62 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:14 pm

It is impossible to even try to defend the use of Suboxone for addiction to you. Your mind is made up so we'll just have to let you vent.

We rarely ever hear of someone who is addicted to Suboxone as the vast majority don't even feel the effects. Did he start on it or use it to get off of another opiate? Not that it matters. My suggestion to you is to go to Subsux.com and vent all your anger there where you'll get a sympathetic crowd. This site is pro-Suboxone because it has saved countless lives including my own. Without it, I'd either be dead or homeless. Of course that statement does no good for your loved one.

Sorry you had such a bad experience with it. We hope you get recovery results very soon.
Don't take yourself so damn seriously

SubsGiftfromSatan
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Re: Straight from the pits of HELL

Post by SubsGiftfromSatan » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:10 am

that's comical, but ok... thx for your kind words

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Re: Straight from the pits of HELL

Post by docm2 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:52 am

I have conducted enough research and spoken to enough providers that work in the field to now understand that suboxone is a gift from Satan straight from the hands of BIG pharma!
Step forward and show us your research, with citations of peer reviewed articles.
Stephen Scanlan, M.D. a long time advocate of brief detox with Suboxone has come around and agrees that some should be maintained long term.
Thousands of N.P.'s have gotten their waivers since the CARES act. Your N of 1 does not trump collective experience.

I've seen you have been back periodically to see what response your post got. You received a kind and encouraging response and dumped on it, without answering Rule's question.
I also suggest you head over to SUBSUX.

SubsGiftfromSatan
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Re: Straight from the pits of HELL

Post by SubsGiftfromSatan » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:15 pm

When someone like yourself is in love with their addiction it makes it very hard to see the truth b/c of the fears and anxiety that likely exists at the thought of someone saying something derogatory re the substance you are so in love with. I have first hand experience! Even though I am confident there are peer reviewed journal articles out there, I am not going to take the time to find them for you. I have seen newborn baby's scream their little brains out b/c their mother used subutex during their pregnancy. Have you ever heard this kind of crying? Unlikely.. it will give you nightmares! Nothing soothes these cries. I am friends with a doctor who conducts interventions and sits on the treatment team and is on the board of directors who has shared with ongoing stories how suboxone/subutex has ruined the lives of so many patients that she has treated. I have watched my phD educated husband turn into a shell of a human! He has stole money to purchase this evil off the street at almost $2k/month! My brother was his supplier and my brother puts this poison in his veins with a needle.. along with half the clinic swingers in the same small town. The use of this drug should be limited to life-threatening dangers, such as IV drug use, endocarditis, staph, cardiovascular complications and of course, overdose. Where there is eminent risk of death. You are absolutely correct this group is not for me! If my words cause one person to question putting this poison in their mouth, it's worth arguing on here with you. Thanks for the advice! Good luck!

And yes my husband had a long history of abusing opiates and thought this drug was worth trying to assist him with his cravings. He recently described suboxone as a parasite. He said it latched onto him and refused to let go. He is 7 days out now and each day is better, but he is so very depressed and in a very bad place mentally.

Rdphish73
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Re: Straight from the pits of HELL

Post by Rdphish73 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:24 pm

I can tell you first hand this drug can be very evil....and very deceptive. It completely changed me. And not for the better either.....

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Re: Straight from the pits of HELL

Post by Cytokrom C » Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:26 am

I searched Pubmed, and there seems to be some research supporting the notion of a flatter emotional response on average in patients treated with buprenorphine compared with the general population and people on AA: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3706486/

However, you should weigh this and other side effects against the option, which for most patients mean active opioid addiction with all its associated health, social and financial consequences, not against some hypothetical situation where the opioid dependence issue magically disappeared. Success rate of stopping opioids long-term without treatment is very low, probably <10%... For most patients with opioid dependence the benefit-risk balance for treatment is strongly positive.

With regards to both costs and quality of care, it would probably be beneficial if you could find a legal prescriber of buprenorphine who could also help you develop a treatment plan.


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Re: Straight from the pits of HELL

Post by Lillyval » Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:36 am

One sentence belies the root of your anger and pain,

“He has stole money to purchase this evil off the street at almost $2k/month! My brother was his supplier and my brother puts this poison in his veins with a needle..”

Even at the highest street price I have ever seen, 16mg day would cost MAYBE $900/month($600 or less is more likely). If he is spending $2k a month there is clearly a lot more going on there. And if your brother is IVing it..that’s active addiction and can’t be compared to therapeutic use.

I’m truly sorry for what you are going through. Transferring your anger onto a pharmaceutical drug might help you cope in the short term, but in the long term you are going to need help and support of your own. Often the loved ones of an addicts need just as much or more recovery than the addict himself.

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Re: Straight from the pits of HELL

Post by docm2 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:33 am

Thanks Lily Val, good post. IV BUP has 100% bioavailability; so much lower doses are usually used, 1-4 mg a day would fully saturate the receptors.

Cytokrom C
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Re: Straight from the pits of HELL

Post by Cytokrom C » Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:23 pm

This post is kind of missing the entire point of maintenance treatment, disregarding 50 years of expeirence and research... Sure, buprenorphine is an excellent tool for detoxing from opioids, however experience shows that most will go back to using again after a (premature) detox.

You should not get too hooked up on the physical dependence to buprenorphine. Physical dependence is not really the issue with addictive disorders. It is rather the obsession, the cycle between high and sick, the chase for drugs and the financial, health and social consequences. Correctly used, maintenance treatment such as buprenorphine (or methadone) could takes all these “addiction” parts away, enabling patients to feel normal, lead a productive life and focus on other aspects of recovery.

I can understand that your husband would like to try getting off if he experiences bad side effects from buprenorphine. By the difficulties you describe, you may perhaps have tapered too fast? There are much info on how to taper buprenorphine in other forum posts and most advocate going very slow with dose reductions, esp. when getting below 4 mg (and by slow I mean several months...) and splitting the doses over the day in the end. Search the forum...

I am a bit worried that it might not be in your husbands best interest to totally dismiss one of the few evidence based effective treatments available, should it be needed. And if possible, consider seeking medical help for dependence treatment (not just for detoxing). Opioid dependence is a serious medical condition, which should get professional attention and a proper individualized treatment plan. It does not normally disappear by itself just because you succeed with a detox, but is something you will probably have to continue working with... I wish you the best.

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