Suboxone at 2 mg currently, have ability to go lower.

How to stop Suboxone? How long should I be on buprenorphine? Is Suboxone withdrawal bad? How do I detox?
pearce88
Average Poster
Average Poster
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:17 am

Suboxone at 2 mg currently, have ability to go lower.

Post by pearce88 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:21 am

Hi.

Im on 2 mg suboxone currently an have tapered down from 32 over the past 3 months 4 mg a week at the start an then 2 mg a week. I am on 2 mg now but have 7 take away doses that i could go to .5 mg. My uncles dying an i really wanted to show him i was off it an im asking an honest question. Will the wd from 2 mg be any worse than the wd from .5 mg.

Also, what scripts do i need to ask my doctor for an what tablets do I need.

Thankyou all so much

User avatar
Amy-Work In Progress
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4816
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:42 am

Re: Suboxone at 2 mg currently, have ability to go lower.

Post by Amy-Work In Progress » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:37 am

Hi Pearce and welcome to the forum.

I wish I had better news for you. 2mg is still a significant amount of buprenorphine to step off of. Your withdrawals will be somewhat worse than if you stopped at .5mg.

But here's the thing. It's just a matter of degrees. You've already done a lot of the work and I can't imagine that you haven't already been dealing with some withdrawal symptoms because of how quickly you've tapered already. You can expect to feel the most discomfort peak at around day 11 and then you will slowly feel better. It's sometimes a case of feeling like two steps forward, one step back, but you will feel better over time. One of the most challenging parts of withdrawing from buprenorphine is that your sleep will most likely be disrupted for a couple of weeks to a month. I encourage you to look in this section for the stories of people stepping off suboxone.

There are definitely some prescription medications that can be very helpful during your detox. We always suggest that you stay away from benzodiazepines like xanax because they are so addictive themselves. But we do suggest that ask for a medication that will help you sleep. Here's a list that people can add to if they want.

1. Clonidine - helps with RLS, hot/cold flashes, skin crawling sensations.
2. Gabapentin - many folks report that this non-narcotic nerve pain reliever helps them during detox.
3. Loperamide - anti-diarrheal you can buy over the counter (Immodium)
4. Some kind of sleep inducing medication. I've heard of people being diagnosed seroquel, trazodone

The other suggestions are lifestyle related. Keep busy!! Don't sit at home focusing on how you feel! Go to work, go volunteer, go help a friend with a renovation project, start a new exercise program, etc. You probably won't feel like doing these things, but I guarantee that being occupied will be very helpful to make the time pass more quickly.

Other suggestions: hot showers, eating very healthfully with lots of fruits and veggies, some folks swear by supplements and they may comment here with more specific suggestions, getting out and exercising, binge watching a couple of good shows.

One of the most debilitating parts of detoxing, as we all know, is the depression/anxiety that can go along with it. Some doctors suggest adding an antidepressant like Wellbutrin for the next few months. However, meds like that can be hit or miss. It's important to remember that you will feel better. There is a light at the end of the tunnel! You can heal and live a great life with continued work on your recovery!

I have more to say to you, Pearce, but I think that this answers most of your questions for now. Feel free to use this thread as a kind of journal, reporting how you are doing from time to time. We will be here to support you.

Amy
Done is better than perfect!

BlueLight
Super-Duper Poster
Super-Duper Poster
Posts: 341
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:05 pm

Re: Suboxone at 2 mg currently, have ability to go lower.

Post by BlueLight » Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:47 pm

You’ve tapered down from 32 mg to 2 mg in 3 months?!? That’s an extremely aggressive tapering, and dare say, quite possibly irresponsible. Are you simply getting off Suboxone until your uncles passes away and resume? How long were you taking 32 mg? What was your DOC (heroin)? Why is it important to your uncle you don’t take Suboxone?

I ask these questions only because I’ve watched a number of friends die, 3 in the past 6 weeks, from cessation or avoiding Suboxone who relapse, OD, and die. I would hate to see your short term zeal become your permanent undoing. Hence, why your post concerned me. Best regard.

User avatar
Amy-Work In Progress
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4816
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:42 am

Re: Suboxone at 2 mg currently, have ability to go lower.

Post by Amy-Work In Progress » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:31 pm

Pearce, you are a very sweet person to want to make this gesture for your dying uncle. It's a testament to how much you love him and how much he means to you. I'm sorry that he is dying.

Unfortunately your uncle must share in the mistaken belief that opioid addiction is something that you can cure with a few months or even years of buprenorphine or methadone, and then go off the medication without looking back. That viewpoint does not line up with the current, scientific knowledge we have regarding addiction, especially opioid addiction.

We have been bombarded for so long with abstinence-based treatment, that it is difficult for society to make the shift to Medication Assisted Treatment now being the gold-standard of treatment. As I'm sure you know, the stakes are incredibly high with death rates from overdosing still a major crisis. MAT is the only treatment method preventing relapse and overdose death in opioid addicts. No other treatment even comes close!

Another mischaracterization is that being an addict comes down to choice and/or values. However, the research that has been done in the neuroscience of addiction makes it quite clear that the brain's own survival system is hijacked by addiction. Our brains start giving us a signal that only opioids matter and that we must have them to survive. That's a really simplified explanation of opioid addiction, but it shows that we are fighting against a powerful part of our own brain. So far, the only way that we've been able to shut down that brain signal that says, "Opioids Equal Survival!", is to quiet it with methadone, buprenorphine, or to a lesser extent, naltrexone.

Opioid addiction can't be cured, but can be managed! It is comparable to adult onset diabetes in that way. Diabetics can live long lives in fairly good health if they are taking their medication and tackling some lifestyle issues. Likewise, addicts can manage to keep their addiction under control by taking their medication and working on issues in their lives that could lead them back to active addiction. Being able to quit your medication, whether it's buprenorphine or insulin, is a worthy goal. But I would say that it is a secondary goal, because our primary goal is to stay alive.

When it comes down to it, our families want us to live happy, productive, healthy lives. Most of all, they want us to live!

Pearce, I understand that you're getting off buprenorphine as a loving gesture toward your dying uncle, and that's admirable.

Just please consider that being on methadone or buprenorphine is not any kind of failure of recovery! And if you get to the point that you are close to a relapse, please go back on a maintenance medication!

Amy
Done is better than perfect!

pearce88
Average Poster
Average Poster
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:17 am

Re: Suboxone at 2 mg currently, have ability to go lower.

Post by pearce88 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:45 pm

Hey guys. I appreciate the responses. I should never have been put on suboxone in the firdt place it was from atods in australia which are a drug treatment place. I was in a major car accident an put on fentanyl patches an quit them cold turkey an it was the worst pain imaginable. I then for about two years used oxycontin once a week or so as a euphoric sensation but i was never dependant like I was on the fentanyl. My mother thought i was addicted so i agreed to go to atods to make her feel better expecting them to say get counselling. instead they put me on suboxone 32 mg an mum insisted i take it and i did not know it would do this to me. Ive been on suboxone four years fear of quitting it because of the pain of w/d from fentanyl. i have not touched any other drug during my suboxone this last four years. I have no desire to be using any other drug an wish I decided to quit suboxone far earlier. Do you still think I will relapse? onto what drug and why?

Suboxone has ruined my life my testosterone level is 1 out of a range of 1-13 i have to take trt and other tablets because its ruined my hormones, numbed my emotions, an my feelings. I wish to get off it as quickly as possible because I hate pain killers an have spent four years in fear of the fentanyl withdrawls an thinking suboxone would be the same. If its any less than the fentanyl pain then I can handle it.

Thankyou very much for your responses I should have opened up about this in my first post. I should never have been put on suboxone because I was not dependant or withdrawing from any narcotic.

BlueLight
Super-Duper Poster
Super-Duper Poster
Posts: 341
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:05 pm

Re: Suboxone at 2 mg currently, have ability to go lower.

Post by BlueLight » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:23 am

Pearce, thanks for the further explanation. Let me understand this correctly, you’ve been on a very high dose of Suboxone 24/7/365 now for 4 years. For the two years before that you abused Oxycodone weekly for 2 years, but not enough to become dependent on them. Prior to this you were dependent on Fentanyl for how long, 1 year or more? Did you take it exactly as prescribed or did you abuse it and take more than, or more often, than prescribed? (I’m not judging, I’m asking.)

Here’s my concern, at a minimum you’ve been dependent on or abusing opiates for 7+ years. I’m assuming you’re in your 20s, no? That being the case you’ve spent the vast majority of your adult life in the grips of opiate use or abuse. This sheer amount of time fundamentally rewires your brain. I’m positive given what you’ve posted that you could get off Suboxone and stay clean for a few / several weeks, and maybe even a couple of months. I’d hate to see you 2 months clean, only to have unrelenting cravings for any opiates and you return to abusing Oxycodone again, even if you can “control it” for an extended period of time. I know Australia has some challenging Suboxone RXing requirements. If after 2 or 3 months off Suboxone, can you easily start back on a low dose (4 mg or less) right away?

I’m wondering if you shouldn’t stay on Suboxone on 1 mg or 2 mg for 3 more months....let your body catch up to your new dosage. The side effects of buprenorphine should start abating soon if they haven’t already.

It sucks to hear about needing TRT, but I’m in the same boat. Did you have a TBI (traumatic brain injury) or major concussion from your accident? Because it might not be Suboxone causing your low T, but rather a TBI/concussion. There’s been a lot of recent research on males with TBI in the States this past decade.

But if you still want off Suboxone I get it. Just be aware as you taper below 2 mg it gets harder. Perhaps you should get 1 more full month’s refill so you have plenty of Suboxone to slowly taper from your current dose to zero in the next 6 weeks. Thoughts?

pearce88
Average Poster
Average Poster
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:17 am

Re: Suboxone at 2 mg currently, have ability to go lower.

Post by pearce88 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:44 pm

Hey mate im 26. I was on fentanyl patches for 4 months and never abused them. my doctor stupidly cut me off cold turkey. Atods over here dont give me a months dose to take home I have to go to the chemist every day to dose in front of them. They said once im stabilized at 2 mg, I will get 7 doses of 2 mg to take home and cut up to go to a lower dose. 7 is the maximum they wont allow anymore. And the chemist will not cut the strips either. I did suffer a concussion and gained tourettes disorder and multiple other illnesses from the crash. yes for the two years before suboxone I used Oxycontin once a week or fortnight an it was just the money issue mum was worried about not the drug usage because I definitely never became dependent on them. But I never stopped abusing them either. I am determined to come off it being that ive been 4 years clean. But am unsure how to taper from 2 to .5 with 7 doses. its not much and they will not give me anymore. If I screw up, getting back on the program is easy they have told me if I fail urine tests they will recommend I be put back on a low dose and they promised not to put me on a high dose anymore. Over here Im not prescribed by a gp im prescribed by Alcohol and tobacco and other drugs service. If I went through a gp I would have more leniency.

Thanks mate for your reply.

User avatar
Amy-Work In Progress
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4816
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:42 am

Re: Suboxone at 2 mg currently, have ability to go lower.

Post by Amy-Work In Progress » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:37 pm

So you were using oxycontin as a weekend party drug type of thing? And you weren't dependent on them, but then was in a crash and they put you on fentanyl patches. And then cut you off CT.

You only have 7 2mg doses to taper off. They won't give you any more. But if you have a hot urine, they will put you back on that lowish 2mg dose.

If I were making the choice, I would go through a GP. Explain that you would like to finish a taper off buprenorphine, but you want to go slowly.

If you just have the 7 2mg strips left, this is what I would do. I would cut each 2mg film into 8 pieces. I would not dose until I started to feel withdrawals kick in pretty good. Then I would take a .25mg piece, or 2 pieces. Feel better and then wait as long as you can again before taking more. You would be going by what your body is telling you. You wouldn't have to feel panicky because you know that there would be another piece coming if you really need it. If you're going to do it this way, however, you have to be disciplined. You have to only take the small amount at a time and wait for the symptoms to alleviate. You couldn't say, "Ok it's been 25 minutes and the withdrawal symptoms aren't gone, so I'll take 3 more!" You would have to make the decisions slowly and draw out your doses as much as possible.

I'm sure others will come along with more suggestions. Good luck!

Amy
Done is better than perfect!

BlueLight
Super-Duper Poster
Super-Duper Poster
Posts: 341
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:05 pm

Re: Suboxone at 2 mg currently, have ability to go lower.

Post by BlueLight » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:31 pm

Pearce, yeah I knew Australia had some tough RXing requirements for Suboxone. What a major pain to have to show up Every darn day just to get your medication!

I also know what a major pain it is to get TRT in Australia. I’m going to guess that your low testosterone is probably related to your crash / accident. Maybe not, but let’s assume so for the moment? If getting off Suboxone doesn’t raise your testosterone levels does that change your consideration?

I also know it’s a huge pain to get on TRT in Australia. Are they also supplementing your TRT with HCG?

What mcg per hour patch were you on? (25, 50, 75, or 100?). Ive CTd from a 75 mcg patch before and it was a living hell on Earth. If you do your taper correctly it won’t be anywhere near as bad. Here’s what I’m thinking.

Take as long as needed to stabilize on 2 mg. (Up to 2 more weeks)

Get 7 - two mg strips to take home which is 14 mg

Day 1 - 1.5 mg
Day 2 - 1.5 mg
Day 3 - 1.5 mg
Day 4 - 1.0 mg
Day 5 - 1.0 mg
Day 6 - 1.0 mg
Day 7 - 1.0 mg
Day 8 - .75 mg
Day 9 - .75 mg
Day 10 - .75 mg
Day 11 - .5mg
Day 12 - .5 mg
Day 13 - .5 mg
Day 14 - .5 mg
Day 15 - .25 mg
Day 16 - .25 mg
Day 17 - .25 mg
Day 18 - .125 mg
Day 19 - .125 mg
Day 20 - .125 mg
Day 21 - .125 mg

BlueLight
Super-Duper Poster
Super-Duper Poster
Posts: 341
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:05 pm

Re: Suboxone at 2 mg currently, have ability to go lower.

Post by BlueLight » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:57 pm

Also, will a GP or the alcohol people RX you Lofexidine (called Lucemyra in US)?

It will handle a lot of WD issues like restless leg, heat/cold sweats, high blood pressure, and anxiety.

User avatar
Jess1208
Super Poster
Super Poster
Posts: 166
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:20 am
Location: USA

Re: Suboxone at 2 mg currently, have ability to go lower.

Post by Jess1208 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:51 am

To anyone considering getting on an antidepressant for tapering/jumping off, I urge you to get stabilized on the antidepressant BEFORE you even consider "jumping" or going off your suboxone or buprenorphine.

As im sure a lot of us know, antidepressants can make you feel MUCH worse before you feel better, and can come with a host of other side effects, and can really make you feel wonky for the first couple months. So if this is something you are considering PLEASE stabilize on the antidepressant BEFORE jumping off! Your mind and body will thank you!!!!

I have tried a lot of a/d's and they have all given me HELL for about 2 months. Even wellbutrin made me feel like I was seriously going crazy, I was more emotional than I have ever felt my entire life. Roller coaster ups and downs. Crying for no reason, wanting to punch walls and scream at everybody. and I am not "crier" at all.

So please take my advice and remember that most meds do not magically work overnight, you will need to give your body time to adjust and stabilize just like you did with suboxone (or whatever maintenance med you are on)

Just wanted to put that out there! The goal is to make this as EASY as you possibly can for yourself! :)
Jess
"Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, Anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending." -Unknown

pearce88
Average Poster
Average Poster
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:17 am

Re: Suboxone at 2 mg currently, have ability to go lower.

Post by pearce88 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:13 pm

Hi all. I was given 6 take aways in the end im following the taper plan as advised by all you guys but bluelight specifically. Im on my second day of 1 mg dose an will do another 2 days at 1 mg then go lower with about 3 strips in total left. I appreciate all you guys help my doctor put me on clonazapam an valium for the withdrawls but ive found a new medication luceymra that He is considering putting me on its not common in australia. Thankyou all I will let you know how I go

User avatar
Amy-Work In Progress
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4816
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:42 am

Re: Suboxone at 2 mg currently, have ability to go lower.

Post by Amy-Work In Progress » Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:35 pm

Yes, please let us know how you are getting through the taper.

I wish you the best during this process.

Amy
Done is better than perfect!

pearce88
Average Poster
Average Poster
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:17 am

Re: Suboxone at 2 mg currently, have ability to go lower.

Post by pearce88 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:40 am

Hi all.

I am on day 11 and am going well. I jumped off at 1 mg. I lasted three days an the restleness combined with my tourettes i had no choice but to think of a plan. I thought about using mscontin (morphine sulphate extended release) 30 mg to over power the bupe withdrawls an then cut the ms contin off at day 12, before i build a dependancy. I figured it would cancel eachother out. Atods the people who put me on subby agreed it would work an my doctor said he doesnt know but he trusts my gut an gave me 14 ms contin pills. if i skip a day of mscontin the withdrawls are no where near as bad as they were at day 1-3. I would have killed myself.

Looking for some opinions here i know my way is cheating but will it work? how many days does it take to become dependant on ms contin? i hate using mscontin it makes me sick i cant stand opiates anymore so i definitly wont be relapsing. thanks

BlueLight
Super-Duper Poster
Super-Duper Poster
Posts: 341
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:05 pm

Re: Suboxone at 2 mg currently, have ability to go lower.

Post by BlueLight » Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:15 am

If you dose MSContin at the same mg every day for 14 days, you will be back to square one. The only way this plan will work is if you taper, and DO NOT use more than you are scheduled to, daily. So if you’re taking 30 mgs daily you need to be down to under 5 mg by your last day, or all will be for naught. Even under this scenario you will still have mild WDs.

Anything more than 4 or 5 days on MSContin will rapidly leave you dependent.

pearce88
Average Poster
Average Poster
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:17 am

Re: Suboxone at 2 mg currently, have ability to go lower.

Post by pearce88 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:53 pm

Man I cant beleive theyd let me do that knowing that. They assured me it takes 2-4 weeks to build a dependancy. Ive used ms contin for 8 days. Should i just cut cold turkey now or should I cut them in half an dose for a few days. I cannot get another script i have about 20 pills left all 30mg. my doctor cannnot write me another script

Ive been on it 7 days actually

pearce88
Average Poster
Average Poster
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:17 am

Re: Suboxone at 2 mg currently, have ability to go lower.

Post by pearce88 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:59 pm

im scared shitless now. I have been using it for 7 days. Whats my best method of action fromhere for least withdrawls. Im on day 12 of my suboxone withdrawl aswell.

BlueLight
Super-Duper Poster
Super-Duper Poster
Posts: 341
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:05 pm

Re: Suboxone at 2 mg currently, have ability to go lower.

Post by BlueLight » Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:56 pm

It takes 2 to 4 weeks for an opioid naive patient. You’ve been on opioids for years. Your brain just switched to MS in a few days.

If I was you, I’d cut your dose now by 15% - 20% or so. Obviously, cutting those small buggers are a bit of guesswork, but you’ve got to start weaning yourself, now. Take that dose for 2 or 3 days, then be down to 15 mg for a couple of days. Then 10 mgs for 2 or 3 days.

I don’t consider you “cheating” but rather trying to outsmart your dependency / addiction, and that doesn’t ever work. You have stimulated your opiate receptors and a price will be paid. Most of us don’t mind mild WDs when we keep the bigger picture in mind. Just realize you will need to / likely have some mild discomfort which is necessary to beat this thing. If you give in and take more, then the WDs at the end will just be multiplied.

You can do this!

pearce88
Average Poster
Average Poster
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:17 am

Re: Suboxone at 2 mg currently, have ability to go lower.

Post by pearce88 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:18 pm

wow I made a big mistake didnt I. Thankyou bluelight. Ill cut the pills down for 2-3 days each taper an go to the bottom. I suppose thats better than cutting cold turkey off the 30s? EVery detox facility ive rung knew i was on suboxcone for years an still say a week on ms contin will not cause any withdrawls. they are all talking rubbish

pearce88
Average Poster
Average Poster
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:17 am

Re: Suboxone at 2 mg currently, have ability to go lower.

Post by pearce88 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:30 pm

Bluelight do you think the wd's from this mscontin will be worse than the suboxone wd's i had on day five... thankyou

Post Reply