does it make u mad when

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dav_15_2001
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does it make u mad when

Post by dav_15_2001 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:30 pm

people sell there subs on the streets? I am kinda bent on the issue because, i know quite a few people that sell them in my area. Some of them sell them b/c they get some of there money back these things are expensive. Then there are the people who sell almost every single one of them so they can do dope of there opiate of choice which really fme off. I always said if i was givin the oppurtunity to be on the subs i would never turn back to the demon aka dope lol. Of course i have a few friends that bought a few on the streets and used them to get off the dope and a few have been clean for quite a while now and had it not been for the ones they bought off the street they would have had to quit the old fashioned way and who wants to do that anymore lol. But like i said i also c the other side were people sell them and jus go back to old habbits so i wanted to c what u guys thought on the issue

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Jackcrack
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Post by Jackcrack » Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:09 pm

Pisses me off. It is illegal and it jeopardizes ALL of us. There are programs out there to help get your sub for less. There is a generic. There are ways people can do this legally and every time there is a raid and suboxone is found we all run the risk of being unable to get it. Additionally, the general population thinks it is then a street drug people get high off of and it will never become accepted if that happens. There are also waiting lists to get on suboxone so for anyone selling it for any reason other than to pay for their own meds, it makes me mad. They are taking the slot of some other person who could be seeing a doctor legally and paying LESS for it than they would on the street. For people using it on a temporary basis to come off other drugs, if you can't take the heat...get out of the kitchen. It is only enabling these people to continue in their active addiction longer. The people selling it to them are KILLING them in the worst way because it takes away some of the negative effects that would otherwise help force them to decide and get off the opiates. They are lying and risking the doctor's license and that disgusts me. Fewer doctors will want to prescribe for this reason. For those selling it to people illegally and that person is taking them long term to alleviate withdrawal and the person does want to become healthy, it still pisses me off. That person is risking their health and sobriety because it will never be a consistent supply and it keeps them in active addiction mode around the very people who threaten their sobriety. It keeps them in their old behavior patterns. I am not a tattle tale and I am not a nark and I hate cops, but if I knew someone doing this I would be extremely tempted to get them busted. At the very least, I would tell them what I thought about what they were doing and cut them out of my life completely.

That is how I feel about it.

Cherie

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Bboy42287
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Post by Bboy42287 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:55 pm

It makes me so mad when people do that. this one gurl i meet threw at my sub doc waiting room was mad cool and we started cilling one thing lead to another and i dont need to say more but once i really got to know her she came out an told me something that really upset me alot. she said i play our dr every month and make mad money of my sub scrip. she went on to say that she would take it for 3 days b4 her app so the bup showed up on the UA and everything looked good. lets just say the S$$ wassnt that good and i stop cillin with her the day after she told me that. im no snitch so i didnt say anything to the doc but in the long run she got hers. i was in my doc was telling me about how he just caught this gurl cheating the clinic and got caught selling her sub in the parking lot of his office. cops took her away and havent heard anything bout her since. so in the long run it always comes back to bite you in the ass!

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Matt2
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Post by Matt2 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:26 pm

It certainly does upset me to hear of others diverting meds, any meds not just Suboxone. The problem is worse with Suboxone however in that normies perpetually seem to be looking for any way to end Suboxone and other maintenance medication treatment programs. I have spent so much time thinking about this problem though and even after all that time I still see alot of things that aren't so clear cut though. For example if opiates and other drugs of abuse are going to be diverted no matter what wouldn't it better to have a much safer drug like Suboxone/buprenorphine being diverted that unlike other opiates is not likely to cause severe respitory depression? There's also the fact that if a using opiate addict takes a diverted Suboxone their risk of overdosing in the next 24-48 hours would seem to also be greatly reduced. At the end of the day though I will agree in saying that I've only seen Suboxone/buprenorphine treatment work when people are under the direct care of their personal doctor and they are obtaining and using bupe the legal way and I can even go so far as to say that if an opiate addict starts taking Suboxone on their own off the street without a doctor to supervise there is the risk that bupe maintenance will not ever work for them long term as they can develop some very bad practices: dosing multiple times a day, taking the medication whenever they "feel" like they need it rather than taking it on a set schedule etc. I guess I'm just saying that I can see a bunch of bupe/Suboxone floating around on the black market as being a marked improvement over oxy, methadone, hydro, fent, and all other PURE opiate agonists that can all cause unlimited amounts of respitory depression. Opiate addiction kills addicts daily and every day spent using is just another roll of the dice. If a using addict happens to come across diverted Suboxone it can in many ways keep them alive another day or two. I don't know about you guys but every day I'm still alive at the end of the day is considered a blessing just because of the fact I'm an opiate addict and this is taking into account the fact that I'm not even a using opiate addict anymore. The odds of me dying from the disease are uncomfortably high even if I can put together a little span of clean time. Addicts still using cannot afford to be too picky and anything in my opinion that keeps them alive another day is a true miracle now whether it's legal or politically correct is another story but at least buprenorphine can keep people alive long enough to have that debate. I hope against hope that buprenorphine maintenance continues to be available on an outpatient basis as I think it's quite obvious that if bupe maintenance came under the same regulations as methadone maintenance, then there will be many, many, many fewer opiate addicts staying clean. Opiate addiction treatment and management is inconvenient enough we need no more restrictions to makes things even more difficult....
"If you're going through hell, ....keep going!"
-Winston Churchill

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Re: does it make u mad when

Post by Ryan Ryan Ryan » Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:51 pm

I was reading an article on this. The government and police see it as a good thing as the risk of overdose is very low and those that buy it on the streets often go on to get help and to buy it legally as it gets them off that horrible merry-go-round of hustling and stealing for heroin and oxy.

See it as a good thing.

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TeeJay
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Re: does it make u mad when

Post by TeeJay » Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:10 pm

Doesn't annoy me.

Better they sell Suboxone than heroin.

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Re: does it make u mad when

Post by suboxdoc » Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:57 am

Interesting topic. I don't take as many new patients as I used to, but most of the people I take in as new patients have been using 'street Suboxone' for months, sometimes for years, before finding a doctor. They usually make great patients because of their self-motivation.

I do whatever I can to prevent diversion, including investigating as best I can to find out whether one of my patients was the source of what they were using. There is one significant risk to diversion of buprenorphine: to a non-opioid-tolerant person, even a small part of a dose could be lethal.

It seems that most of the politicians who debate the safety of buprenorphine are not capable of complex thinking. I've had discussions with some, and their eyes glaze over about 5 minutes into an explanation of why buprenorphine is a lousy first-line drug of abuse. I'll explain how people already addicted to opioids have higher tolerances, so for them buprenorphine will at best allow them to 'break even' and feel closer to normal, and at worst precipitate severe withdrawal. Buprenorphine will certainly provide a 'high' for a first-time opioid user, but because of the ceiling effect and long half-life, repeated doses will not provide a 'buzz' unless the person waits 2-3 days in between. And trying to abuse buprenorphine several times will create a tolerance that removes most of the medication's effects. And of course that person will be prevented from abusing other opioids, including heroin, while buprenorphine is on board.

I HAVE had a few patients who said that buprenorphine medications were their first exposure to opioids. But when you look at those cases, the patients were often seeking out opioids, and would likely have come across a different opioid agonist had buprenorphine not been around.

Diversion should be prosecuted. But ending buprenorphine diversion wouldn't be at the top of the list for anti-crime funding if I ran the city budget.

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TeeJay
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Re: does it make u mad when

Post by TeeJay » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:47 pm

What I've seen happen that concerns me a bit is when young people seek out street Suboxone as an introductory opioid, perhaps because of ease of availability and the thought of using heroin might scare them. Bupe can still give these people a decent buzz. But it can slip into addiction just as rapidly as a person using any other opiate. And when their dose hits the ceiling they can go looking for other opiates.

End result is someone with a long term opioid dependence that's hard to shake.

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Re: does it make u mad when

Post by jennjenn » Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:00 pm

It does bother me for the simple fact that it makes those judgmental a-holes even more ammunition to try to use against the medication. I live in small town southern Bible Belt, here there’s just ppl that make things so hard for everyone. Example number 1, when I was about a year into my recovery and was ready to fight for custody bk of my children, my attorney told me that the judge wouldn’t see me as in recovery as long as I was taking suboxone. This is because of the stigma and imo it being sold on the street just doesn’t help matters at all here. You can buy a newspaper here and a big drug bust be on the front page and the main thing they mention is suboxone.... never mind the benzo’s or meth.... suboxone was confiscated!

Another thing is if it’s being sold on the street then at least 70% of the time it’s because the seller is selling it to go get blowed away on something else. It’s actually hurting that person not helping. Yes it’s good for ppl that can’t maybe afford treatment but even then, here I was told suboxone 8mg is being sold for $25-30. If someone is paying that then they can probably afford some kind of treatment. If they cannot afford it then they’re still doing the scheming to get it as they were when they were taking oxycodone or whatever. So that’s not helpful. They probably 9 times out of 10 not getting the counseling that is a HUGE part of this treatment..... so is it truly helpful buying off the street? Imo no it isn’t.

If someone is selling their medicine they aren’t doing what they are supposed to be doing. If someone is buying off the street then they are doing some of the same things they did to get it most of the time. It really isn’t helping them in the way it needs to be so is it just a waste of time, I don’t know but I think it’ll just eventually lead that person bk to a life of misery if they do it too long. Now a short time with intentions of getting into treatment ok but that’s about as far as I could see it being helpful. People are selling it and most of the time going bk out and using. People are buying it but if they can’t find anything for a few days then where are they going to turn? To something else so in the long run I just don’t think it’s good.

I told this story awhile bk, here in my area, you can go to Walmart or wherever and you’ll see suboxone wrappers in the parking lot just thrown out. They are everywhere like that here. It just bothers me to see it represented that way.
Jennifer

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