Im in PAWS HELL

If you tapered off Suboxone or stopped cold-turkey, how are you now? How did buprenorphine compare to other addiction treatments for you?
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WorldDemise07
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Im in PAWS HELL

Post by WorldDemise07 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:28 pm

Ive been an addict for 20+ years I was on Suboxone for 8 yrs -3- 8mg strips per day .Before that it was roxy's as many as i could get my hands on . I got down to a half a day and jumped off almost 6 months ago . Spent 1 week totally out of my mind with barely enough motivation to eat or shower . Then it got better back to work life goes on . But now i can't shake this depression this low energy im getting the worst anxiety attacks that just cripple me . i don't want to even look at people outside of my immediate family let alone talk to them .Big time social anxiety . I'll have 2 good days then 5 really bad ones . Its crazy and its driving me crazy . I do feel somewhat better though I sleep very well so that's a plus . On the subs i never slept the entire night through . I know i was on a high dose for a long time but this is nuts .I wish my doctor would have told me about this before getting on Subs I would have checked into rehab 8 years ago. I honestly wish i never met up with Suboxone . I know it saves lives. I just wish things are explained better before getting on this .It shouldn't be the only option for everyone . Is there anything besides exercise and diet to help with this nonsense ? Or do i just have to ride this one out ? Thank you all for reading my story any help is greatly appreciated .

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Re: Im in PAWS HELL

Post by rule62 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:50 pm

Suboxone is just another opiate that works a different way from the others. Meaning, you would have experienced the same problems if you just plain stopped w/o Suboxone or if you used another opiate to taper down from. It is easy to blame the Suboxone because it was the last one you took. One must take into consideration all the opiates ingested during their using time. Sorry you're having these difficulties but IMO the Suboxone is not to blame. Again, only my opinion. We have a resident doctor here who can explain it better than I. He may see this post and respond.

Yes, it would have been much better if you weren't given such a large dose for so long. Tapering is much easier with buprenorphine as most of us didn't have withdrawals if it was done slow and steady. It takes several months to get it right with taking 24 mg's per day. Some had no discomfort but most suffer some when they finally get off it.

None of this does you any good now. We do have one member who went back on it a year after stopping because their quality of life was suffering. A low dose of course. It's something to consider unless you're dead set against that idea.

Let's see if some others will post back who have more experience than me.
Don't take yourself so damn seriously

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Re: Im in PAWS HELL

Post by WorldDemise07 » Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:17 pm

Thank you for your insight rule62. Ive thought about going back on it but im just sick of the games . Gotta pay cash to see the doc most of them act like they're doing you such a huge favor by seeing you . Playing games with insurance companies gotta count out my medicine before going on vacation all that jazz . Getting the silly looks at the pharmacy . And god forbid you try and pick up your medicine 1 day early . They look at you like you're Pablo Escobar .Im just over it all .Plus im the kind of person that struggles just taking a quarter or half I get a taste of it and i justify taking more .Thats how i ended up on 3 a day . I would take 1 then want more I don't know what my deal is Ive been on a mission since i was 12 to get F-ed up . Im 5 months without anything honestly i feel more connected to things emotionally as far as my family life .And for the first time in my life i don't wanna be messed up on ANYTHING IM happy being sober which is really weird . I do feel somewhat better I don't get tired like i did on Suboxone no more constipation my libido is back . I just can't shake this lack of motivation and anxiety that strikes everyday around noon . One day at a time i guess . I guess i thought i could stop taking it and be the same person but obviously thats not the case . On Suboxone i was a go getter i worked like a mule and made great money . Today im turning down work to veg out on my couch . My eyes still water my nose runs i go into these sneezing fits . Ive read that just because you quit suboxone you still have to get over the drugs you were on before suboxone . If thats the case i'll be going through this for 3 years . Thanks You again take care .

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Re: Im in PAWS HELL

Post by Jess1208 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:36 pm

Are you doing anything to help yourself feel better? I know you mentioned diet and exercise.

What about mental health?

Meditation, breathing exercises, keeping a journal, regular(minimum 1x/week) counseling or therapy? Have you looked into seeing a Psychiatrist?

Are you going to meetings or doing any type of recovery work?

Jess
"Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, Anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending." -Unknown

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Re: Im in PAWS HELL

Post by Jess1208 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:56 pm

WorldDemise07 wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:17 pm
Plus im the kind of person that struggles just taking a quarter or half I get a taste of it and i justify taking more .Thats how i ended up on 3 a day .
After re-reading this I feel a bit concerned for you and your recovery. And I mean that in the nicest, most helpful way possible.

Can I ask what type of recovery work were you doing the past 8 years, during your time on suboxone treatment? What coping skills do you have and use, when you get cravings?

What you said above gives me the belief that you just replaced your drug of choice with suboxone, and did not actually work on strengthening your recovery during those 8 years you were on MAT. Forgive me if I'm wrong. I hope I am. I am just going by what I read.

The more recovery work we do, the better we will feel in the long run. I worry you may be feeling so bad mentally because you may not have put enough effort towards healing throughout the past 8 years.
You said when you were on suboxone you "worked like a mule". It is common for people to try to stay busy, to not 'deal' with their feelings, to avoid thinking too much, but that will always come back around and bite you in the ass, so to speak. Avoiding problems do not make them disappear.

Maybe these negative emotions have been around for some time, you just didn't notice them before because you were keeping yourself so busy? Sometimes even our conscious mind is unaware of these things. But until they are faced head on, they continue to grow and grow. Until they are impossible to ignore.

Now is the time to acknowledge how you are feeling and figure out how to deal with these feelings, so your mind can be at peace.

And about the "silly looks", I hope one day you will realize that your recovery is far more important than a stranger's judgement.

I wish you the best

Jess
"Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, Anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending." -Unknown

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Re: Im in PAWS HELL

Post by suboxdoc » Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:21 pm

This post and thread point out, believe it or not, why buprenorphine is such a valuable treatment. I don't mean to pick on the original post, but rather to point out things that all of us have gone through at some point.

I often hear patients on methadone or buprenorphine say the same - that 'I should have just gone to detox or rehab'. First off, detox never works. Had the writer gone through detox, he would be feeling just as he does now, if not worse. WD is determined by tolerance level, and most opioid addicts have tolerances well-above the tolerance induced by buprenorphine. So he would have the same withdrawal for the same length of time - and the same PAWS. The difference would be that he would still be very connected to his using world, unlike (hopefully) now, when he has been away from it for years.

'Rehabs' have a better shot at creating abstinence, with a one-year abstinence rate of 10-20%. But the cost is high - tens of thousands of dollars for a few months, even with insurance - and few people are willing to leave their lives for several months for treatment. Of course, he would have the same PAWS there too, but at least he would be physically separated from the using world to some extent.

It is HARD to get off opioids. Paying a doc 5 grand per year is a steal compared to halting the course of most other potentially-fatal illnesses. I don't charge anything close to that myself, but I'm picking a number that I assume would be enough to cover most practices. This person jumped off 4 mg/d, which is essentially stopping 'cold turkey'. There is not much difference at the receptor between 4 and 24 mg per day. You must taper down to about 0.3 mg per day, slowly, and you'll find the path much easier.

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Re: Im in PAWS HELL

Post by WorldDemise07 » Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:10 pm

Thank you everyone im feeling a little better the anxiety has really calmed down . Just tired and lazy this week . I have not sought any treatment yet and i do believe you are right about that Jess . Thank you for pointing that out . We all have different circumstances and mine is very challenging for me . I don't take much care of myself because im constantly caring for others and working so im the last one on the list to see a doctor .ive completely given up on doctors and im going to do some research on my next doctor or doctors i see . I honestly feel the doctors that are out there don't know anything about suboxone or addiction atleast the ones ive seen haven't been very helpful so far . No talk of mental health from them no talk of anything other then here's your script see you next month your doing great ! Thats in the past today is a new day . The last time i took anything was August 30 other then a few xanax to help me sleep a few nights and some pot about a month ago im clean . I still have my job the bills are payed . The wife and kids are good and im moving forward . What else is there ??

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Re: Im in PAWS HELL

Post by BlueLight » Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:06 pm

Detox, rehab, talk therapy, social support (NA meetings, AA, Refuge Recovery), exercise, meditation, recovery reading/books, sober friends, and Suboxone are not all individual avenues for recovery, but rather the entire solution set needed in order to recover. I need each and every one of those. In early recovery I obviously needed detox more than the other avenues, and at 90 days clean I needed IOP, meetings, and critically Suboxone. Today at 2 years I’m down to .35 to .5 mg of Suboxone per day, still do 3 meetings per week, talk therapy twice per month (instead of twice per week when I first got clean), exercise EVERY DAY!

It sounds like you’ve been successful at being abstinent from drugs, but behind on actual recovery work. I know this is easier said than done, but you have to put your recovery first or the other things won’t get your best, and in fact may suffer along with you. When you are feeling good about yourself, you have far more to give others. Just like on an airplane that loses pressure, you must put your oxygen mask on first before helping others.

My guess is you’d start feeling better pretty quickly with some talk therapy with an addiction specialist and getting your endorphins pumping with 30 to 45 minutes of exercise (brisk walk, gardening, gym). But be patient with your brain, you just jerked it off of its source of feel good chemicals after a lot of years. Trust me, I get it. I abused opiates non-stop for 18 years, before starting on Suboxone and slowly cutting down month by month. My goal is to be off that last .5 mg in 90 days.

I do not begrudge Suboxone, it literally saved my life. I would have been dead if I didn’t get help. I’ve lost 9 close friends to opiates because they were too stubborn to go on Suboxone or Vivitrol, and thus relapsed, overdosed, and died. We can never underestimate that Suboxone kept us alive to fight another day!

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