Why I'm angry towards Suboxone.

Why didn't you like medication-assisted treatment? Do you have to be abstinent to be in recovery? Why is the anti-Suboxone crowd so angry?
Post Reply
User avatar
TeeJay
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
Posts: 1146
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:02 pm

Why I'm angry towards Suboxone.

Post by TeeJay » Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:04 am

Because if I have to explain to one more person that the naloxone is NOT what blocks the effects of other opioids I will probably spontaneously combust.

Now we have people in my country choosing Sublocade over Buvidal (called Brixadi in the US) because it has the "extra blocker". Even though they are both only buprenorphine, and Sublocade has way more injection site reactions and takes much longer to reach steady state...

I blame Reckitt. Even when I stub my toe I blame Reckitt.

User avatar
suboxdoc
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 1653
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Why I'm angry towards Suboxone.

Post by suboxdoc » Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:13 am

Ugh- I hear you Tee-Jay! Pharmacists in northern WI and in the UP refuse to carry plain buprenorphine because 'it doesn't have the blocker', so 'it doesn't have the ceiling effect and is more addictive.'

I used to try to explain it to pharmacists. Now I just do my best to avoid them!

User avatar
jennjenn
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3092
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:15 pm
Location: Tennessee

Re: Why I'm angry towards Suboxone.

Post by jennjenn » Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:48 am

The other day I heard someone who has been dealing with patients of suboxone for years and years and even more years say that naloxone is the blocker. I was stunned. If I know this isn’t true, it’s amazing to think others with 10x more experience than me with this medication doesn’t know this then what the heck is happening!
Jennifer

User avatar
razor55
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1284
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:48 pm

Re: Why I'm angry towards Suboxone.

Post by razor55 » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:31 pm

For Years, after learning the turth here, i could never break though to the staff at hospital. either they knew and didnt want the patients to know or they believed the old story. given the hold RB had and has in my state im going with the former, somewhat. I taught this to people in my old 7 year group. atleast many do know . but in the end it really does not matter anymore..rr

AZvet
Average Poster
Average Poster
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:47 pm

Re: Why I'm angry towards Suboxone.

Post by AZvet » Sun May 10, 2020 1:56 pm

Naloxone has been one heck of a marketing ploy!!!

User avatar
pugmommy
Super-Duper Poster
Super-Duper Poster
Posts: 323
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:14 pm
Location: Petoskey, MI
Contact:

Re: Why I'm angry towards Suboxone.

Post by pugmommy » Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:05 pm

Same here. Another gem is, "suboxone put me in precipitated withdrawal, the doctor should've known better and induced me with subutex because it doesn't have naloxone and I wouldn't have had to go through that." :shock:
PUGS NOT DRUGS

User avatar
jennjenn
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3092
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:15 pm
Location: Tennessee

Re: Why I'm angry towards Suboxone.

Post by jennjenn » Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:29 am

I heard a good one a few days ago. They swore that they had been in precipitated withdrawals for 2 days because someone gave them pain medication....... even though they’d been steadily on buprenorphine for a year.
Jennifer

D.K.
Average Poster
Average Poster
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:55 am

Re: Why I'm angry towards Suboxone.

Post by D.K. » Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:39 am

Hey all, thanks for this post.

I just want to make sure that I am not the only one who is confused about this topic. My understanding is that Naloxone WILL BLOCK the affects of opioids ONLY IF YOU INJECT SUBOXONE. So people can inject Subutex, but they cannot inject Suboxone because of the Naloxone. I hate to have anyone explain it, but the way that you are talking about this topic assumes that everyone already knows it. I completely don't understand why AZvet says that "Naloxone has been one heck of a marketing ploy." Am I the only one who has been thinking about Naloxone wrong?

I completely understand the point that precipitated withdrawals were caused by using a partial agonist (Buprenorphine). It has nothing to do with using Suboxone vs Subutex, because going from a full agonist to a partial agonist will cause precipitated withdrawals.

User avatar
rule62
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2723
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:35 pm
Location: Southwest

Re: Why I'm angry towards Suboxone.

Post by rule62 » Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:23 pm

The crazy part is that naloxone does nothing to prevent addicts from injecting it, like it was meant to do. Many addicts shoot up bupe and suffer no ill effects. Yet, my doctor will absolutely not give me plain buprenorphine. Meaning, he doesn't keep up like we do about our drug.
Don't take yourself so damn seriously

D.K.
Average Poster
Average Poster
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:55 am

Re: Why I'm angry towards Suboxone.

Post by D.K. » Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:59 pm

rule62 wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:23 pm
The crazy part is that naloxone does nothing to prevent addicts from injecting it, like it was meant to do. Many addicts shoot up bupe and suffer no ill effects. Yet, my doctor will absolutely not give me plain buprenorphine. Meaning, he doesn't keep up like we do about our drug.
My doctor at CARE Clinic for Drug Addiction in Central Mississippi told me that he rarely prescribes Subutex (which is just Buprenorphine) because people can inject Subutex since it is only Buprenorphine. However, Suboxone cannot be injected because it contains Naloxone. So my doctor will mostly write prescriptions for Suboxone to prevent medication diversion.

Are you saying rule62 that Suboxone (which is Buprenorphine and Naloxone) can still be injected and that the Naloxone does not block the opioid receptors? If that is the case, then what is the purpose and mechanism of Naloxone when it is injected? We all know that Naloxone is an opioid blocker. If what everyone in this post is saying is that Naloxone does not block opioid receptors when injected, then this is news to me and everything that I have read on this topic. Please explain.

User avatar
rule62
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2723
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:35 pm
Location: Southwest

Re: Why I'm angry towards Suboxone.

Post by rule62 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:50 am

Yes, that's what I'm saying. Watching an Addiction program on TV a few months back had someone who regularly shoots their Suboxone. They laugh when you ask about the Naloxone. To them, it doesn't do a thing to deter shooting it up. What should happen is either take it out or increase it so it does prevent people from injecting it.

Heard too many addicts state they shoot it up. But then, I haven't heard of any addicts who shot it complaining that it didn't work. It's a good question that requires some research.
Don't take yourself so damn seriously

docm2
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
Posts: 678
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:40 pm

Re: Why I'm angry towards Suboxone.

Post by docm2 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:05 pm

B...Li.... a web site for active addiction had detailed instructions on how to inject the films within days of their introduction.
Injecting plain buprenorphine is actually probably more dangerous because of the additives in the tabs that can not be filtered out. Causes a crystalline deposit that breaks down the vein. Has a distinctive appearance under refractive microscopy of it is biopsied.
Because of its high affinity buprenorphine isn't all that much affected by Naloxone. If some one overdoses with buprenorphine it will take multiple doses of Narcan to revive them and often a 24 hour drip to keep them awake afterwards.
Rule is correct.
The purpose of Naloxone was simply marketing and to appease the politicians and puritans.
PAX

Post Reply