Upcoming Survey on How Suboxone affects Mood Disorders.

Does buprenorphine treat depression? Is my depression from Suboxone? Will Suboxone treat bipolar? Will naltrexone or Vivitrol make me depressed?
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Upcoming Survey on How Suboxone affects Mood Disorders.

Post by jennyloveschet » Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:40 am

Hi everyone,
I had been diagnosed with several mood disorders back in my late teens - early twenties; however around age twenty-six my diagnosis changed to only Bipolar (which has been confirmed by several mental health professionals). My manic highs, and depressive lows were severe, and greatly affected my life; and my family constantly walked on egg shells in fear not setting me off.
I was a heroin addict for just over ten years. I got sober in 2008, but when I had surgery in 2012, I was prescribed Percocet, and that prescription was my beginning to my relapse with morphine. I found Suboxone in Jan. 2013 and my life drastically changed literally overnight.
While I remained in relapse mode for over a year; I never allowed it to affect my studies. I had enrolled in college in 2010, gained my Associates in 2012, and will be graduating with my BS in psychology (emphasis substance abuse) this coming August.
Back to my point: Suboxone changed my live overnight. For me, I feel that I am relapse proof; I have zero drug chasing dreams, zero triggers, and I never crave opioids since being on suboxone. However, that's not all suboxone has done for me. I no longer experience the manic highs or depressive lows from bipolar. No bipolar symptoms since I began suboxone 13 months ago. However, I have experienced something I would describe as "being too comfortable staying at home, no longer interested in being in crowed areas, a bit anxious in public, and I now enjoy my solitude" . With that said, I have come to know that other people who have been diagnosed with bipolar, and are on suboxone, are also experiencing the same things (no more or less symptoms of bipolar since being on suboxone, but a sense of semi-anti-social behavior). So, I have decided to do a study on this and with your help, along with the clients in my suboxone doctor's office, I thought we could begin to find more of us who are experiencing the same issues. If anyone is interested in assisting me, please respond. This weekend I will post the survey in this forum. Monday I see my doctor and in one month I will collect the data and reveal if, in deed, we are not alone.
Everyone will remain anonymous . If your names are in your screen name, I will not use it. Confidentially is a guarantee . I hope to gain the support required for this study to be regarded as valid. I truly look forward to all of your help.
Thank you all.
Jenny V.
Wow...thank God for Suboxone.

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Re: Upcoming Survey on How Suboxone affects Mood Disorders.

Post by Brown Eyed Girl » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:00 am

Wow, Jenny, great post! And let me congratulate you on your educational achievements, and future in helping others. That's wonderful and you have every right to be extremely proud of yourself.

It's also Amazing to hear what Suboxone has done for you! I can imagine how surprised you must have been, and overjoyed with the results this drug has provided you! Wow, again! :D

I have no Bipolar issues (that I know of), but just wanted to say hello, and to acknowledge this very special time in your life. I'm sure your friends here will also be impressed, and so happy for you.

I'll follow along as you gather info because I'm interested in everything that has to do with Suboxone, and how it can change people's lives. Take care Jenny, and all the best to you!

Karen :D

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Re: Upcoming Survey on How Suboxone affects Mood Disorders.

Post by Xonedone » Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:42 pm

Jenny, I am fascinated and will definitely take the survey.
I have just recently gotten in trouble at work for irritability with co-workers, not patients thank God.
The "I'm perfectly happy sitting in my computer room on Facebook, YouTube and other sites all the time thank you very much" behavior is me to a T. I have become nearly a recluse, and my husband is starting to get annoyed with me.
But I'm "on" for 12 h Sundays, and 8h M-T-W as a psych nurse; interacting therapeutically. I don't see a problem in wanting to be home with no one but hubby, the cat and the dog! I especially enjoy not talking with anyone unless I want to.
Looking forward to more information.

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Re: Upcoming Survey on How Suboxone affects Mood Disorders.

Post by tinydancer » Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:42 pm

Hi Jenny-

I don't have any mood disorders but I experienced exactly what you're referring to. To a "T". If you want my input, I'm here!

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Re: Upcoming Survey on How Suboxone affects Mood Disorders.

Post by Romeo » Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:39 pm

I'll have to 2nd what Tiny just said.
Be kind to yourself. Our character defects do NOT define who we are!

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Re: Upcoming Survey on How Suboxone affects Mood Disorders.

Post by Xonedone » Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:41 pm

Ha - I forgot to mention my Suboxone history!
I am a registered nurse and I was injecting morphine stolen from the hospital back in the late 1990's. Was arrested, charged with 34 2cd degree felonies. Nearly lost my nursing license and my kids. Did lose my job, my house, my driver license, my dignity and my soul to the drugs. By the Grace of God was allowed probation instead of the prison I richly deserved. Went to 60 days of residential treatment but stole a benedryl while there. That finally got my attention, and I was able to stay clean x1 yr. I relapsed 1 yr out of treatment over foot surgery.
Maintained 9 years of happy joyous and free 12 step based sobriety and freedom from opiates.
But about 5 years ago, the long time prozac I was taking for severe recurrent major depressive disorder quit working. I was lucky - I got 20 years out of it. How I knew something was wrong was a gradual awareness of cravings for opiate bliss once more. I stole some opioids from my FIL's supply, and instantly NEEDED more.
Fortunately for me my long time psychiatrist is also a sub doc. I told him what I had done, wondering why the F I was suddenly risking everything again for drug heaven. He suggested while we were trying out new antidepressants that I protect myself from worse relapse with Suboxone. I refused, not wanting another jones. But the cravings got stronger and stronger - and by now I had a new home, a new husband, my nursing license back, my children's respect and was on the state board of nursing for my state - I had a LOT to lose.
So I started suboxone 5 years ago at 6mg/day. Over the years I have constantly fiddled with my dose, wanting for various reasons to be off the drug.
But as Dr J points out so often, better a junkie on suboxone than a dead junkie. So I stayed on it. I found 4 mg to be a perfect dose, but weaned slowly down - short story is I had a hysterectomy this spring. Since I went back on 2 mg Suboxone after surgery, I have noticed the same desire to stay at home, do nothing but Internet (as a verb) and be perfectly content not talking with anyone. I was not a recluse before on 4 mg, but I sure am now. I'm also irritable where I haven't been before.
Because I am facing problems at work I am just barely returning to a dose of 4mg/day of Suboxone, prescribed by my MD & validated by email w Dr J. I was in a sweet spot before at 4mg, and I hope to regain that sweet spot.
Anyway - there's the fairly short version of my story. I am looking forward to helping with the survey. :)

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Re: Upcoming Survey on How Suboxone affects Mood Disorders.

Post by razor53 » Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:13 pm

Hey Jenny..im in...wont go into it now, but i do sound like you..one day a bad craving pill popper..tbe next morning and every day since (38) mpnths later, feel ..well relapse proof..and zero depression...tberes more...but sure be glad to help..razor...

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Re: Upcoming Survey on How Suboxone affects Mood Disorders.

Post by lizzieshug2013 » Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:38 pm

I was just reading thru this thread and noticed that xonedone said some of her troubles with becoming introverted and irritable bEgan after having a hysterectomy. I also had a hysterectomy last year, and had some of the same issues afterward, with irritability, moodiness, etc. could it be hormonal,ie, related to the hysterectomy? May I ask did you also have salpingo oophorectomy( removal of ovaries/tubes as well)? not being nosy, but my problems turned out to be hormonal due to the surgery.

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Re: Upcoming Survey on How Suboxone affects Mood Disorders.

Post by Xonedone » Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:31 am

lizzieshug2013 wrote:I was just reading thru this thread and noticed that xonedone said some of her troubles with becoming introverted and irritable bEgan after having a hysterectomy. I also had a hysterectomy last year, and had some of the same issues afterward, with irritability, moodiness, etc. could it be hormonal,ie, related to the hysterectomy? May I ask did you also have salpingo oophorectomy( removal of ovaries/tubes as well)? not being nosy, but my problems turned out to be hormonal due to the surgery.
Lizzieshug2013, my gyn certainly agreed! Here's the rest of that story. I am 60 years old. Went through menopause years ago, but not sure when because I was using hormone replacement therapy. We had discovered way back in my early 40's that adding a birth control pill evened out the worsened depression I'd get pre menses. I switched from the pill to the exact same med in hormone replacement at 50. I stopped that medicine 1.5 years before my hysterectomy, and had no worsening of mood or hot flashes or irritability.
Had a total hyst with bilateral salpingo=oopherectomy May 31 2013. I didn't notice any change in mood or increased irritability until January 2014.
So my gyn had me start Estrogel on 2/24/14. Increased Suboxone back to 4mg on wed 2/26, so we'll never know, I guess, which intervention helped. I'm OK not verifying which helped as long as between the 2 ZI stop having this irritability and lashing out at co-workers.
The blahs Jenny has described began about a year ago; unrelated, I'm thinking, to the shenanigans of 2013.
Lizzieshug2013, are you using any hormonal supplement now?

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Re: Upcoming Survey on How Suboxone affects Mood Disorders.

Post by jennyloveschet » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:30 am

I have to apologize for not posting the survey, as I stated I would this weekend. I've been in communication with my doctor (the professional who is assisting me and allowing me to use his clients), and he wants to go over my survey before I post, or put it in his office. My appointment is tomorrow morning (Monday March 3ed) and from there he will go over what I have, and make revisions if necessary. Once the final survey is figured out I will post! I am sincerely looking forward to every one of you who replied (and even hopefully more), taking part in this study. This is the beginning of ground breaking information that can help people like us, possibly find a solution to our hermit like behavior.
I can't tell you all how excited I am! This will be the first study done on this topic! Wow right! Actually, the company Suboxone is currently doing a study to see the effects Suboxone has on bipolar; but their study is an experiment, and it's still in progress. In addition, ours will be slightly different because, we're also reporting on depression, anxiety, how Suboxone affects our daily lives, and how it has caused us to become too comfortable being a hermit.
Anyways, I tend to ramble.
Thank you all
Jenny V.
Wow...thank God for Suboxone.

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Re: Upcoming Survey on How Suboxone affects Mood Disorders.

Post by Amy-Work In Progress » Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:18 pm

Hey Jenny,

I'm in the same category as Tinydancer and Romeo. No mood disorders, but I could easily become a hermit. I used to be an extrovert. However, mine started when I went on opiates 24/7. Things have improved somewhat since I started suboxone. Home is the only place that seems safe, unless I'm visiting someone I truly trust. I would love to take part in the survey if I qualify, and I would also love to hear the results of your survey!

Amy
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Re: Upcoming Survey on How Suboxone affects Mood Disorders.

Post by jennyloveschet » Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:52 pm

Amy,
Due to you all, I am revising the survey to include anyone on Suboxone who has developed a lack of wanting to be in public, anxiety, and/or hermit like qualities.
I am so excited! I currently have two surveys for my doctor to overlook and from there we'll make the appropriate alterations. The survey that's going to be in the office is completely confidential and I am directing no names to be on them. I just wanted to add that, because from what my doctor says he's going to help me get this published on http://www.samhsa.gov/. Supposedly, that site isn't too hard to get published on, as long as everything is in order. Having my doctor as a collaborator is the key here and I'm Blessed he is willing to help.
As for you all remaining confidential, don't worry about your names being on any data. You are all going to remain anonymous. That's my word.
Thank you for responding and I will keep you posted.
Jenny V.
Wow...thank God for Suboxone.

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Re: Upcoming Survey on How Suboxone affects Mood Disorders.

Post by Amy-Work In Progress » Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:55 pm

Thank YOU for adding to the knowledge available about suboxone! There need to be more surveys and studies about sub. You go girl!

Amy
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Re: Upcoming Survey on How Suboxone affects Mood Disorders.

Post by Dakota6738 » Sun Mar 16, 2014 12:01 pm

I know you have already started your study. I must say "yes". I too have some chemical imbalance issues that go way back. i have had terms of sobriety over the decades that spread from months to years. I too have been diagnosed bi-polar, along with PTSD and anxiety disorder. I know too that when we have chemicals in our system that mimics alot of these disorders. I have experienced these type disorders during the times that i was able to remain clean for a number of years, so I feel that it is a "true" diagnosis. I am currently 47 years old, I started using drugs at the age of 9. I have been to rehab atleast a dozen times and have been put on every SSRI drug on the market. I onlr got opiate dependent/addicted these past two years or so. Some was recreational and the bulk of the issue started when I almost died from a series of infections that caused severe pain in my spine. Only when I tried to stop using opiates did I realize how messed up this ordeal had spiraled out of control.During the past year I ended up in detox on 3 separate occasions, always put on suboxone for 4 or 5 days then released with an appointment to see there doctor within 7 to 10 days. I could never make it that long - the sickness would get me-wear me down till I found something to stop the madness of acute withdrawl. I finally saved enough money to get in with a suboxone doctor. I was fortunat also in that my medicine is free for a year-my timing was just right-this doctor was new within this group and it was mid January when I had my first appointment, so I got in on the Here to Help program. This doctor does not agree in just giving the bare minimum of this medicine. He started me out on 3-8mg strips a day from the get go. Then after seeing that I also have pain issues he bumped it up to 4-8mg a day. Some folks say this is alot I know. I look at it like this-the meds are free-I do not inject myself with morphine/dilaudid or heroine 7-12 times a day any more. I have virtually no cravings. The most amazing benefit for me is the absence of depression. I feel and act like a totaly different person. I find myself still having some panic attacks from time to time but nothing as severe as they used to be. I still shy away from benzo's just because I turn into an idiot and break out in felonies when I take them. I no longer take any SSRI meds. I just take suboxone(most days just the 3 unless it is a hurting kind of day), neurotin-3 800mg a day and alleve. Thats it, I keep waiting for the magic wand effect as I refer to it to wear off. Two months on this medicine and my family tells me I even look different. I am grateful God has worked this out for me-I would most assuredly have died if I would have kept the other gamet up.

Sincerely,
Steve

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Re: Upcoming Survey on How Suboxone affects Mood Disorders.

Post by no_boop_shoo_be_doop » Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:51 am

I've been diagnosed with bipolar, and yes, it did have a mood stabilizing effect. I didn't really care for some of the side effects tho, such as loss of libido to name one, so personally, wouldn't want to use it for that purpose long term, otherwise I would find a way to use it in a non illicit manner, rather than have gone through the withdrawals after a period of self medication on bupe. It was very helpful for coming off of oxy however, and if I had no choice, I'd probably choose it over some of the other bipolar medications that are out there. Generally, I can manage with minimal to no medication, as I seem to hover somewhere between the Bipolar 2 & 3 part of the BD spectrum (3 is also known as "cyclothymia") when things are going okay, eating properly, exercising, and using supplements that are known to help with mood stabilization, like Omega-3 fatty acids.

I also don't mind the swings when they are not extreme. Hypomania (as opposed to hypermania) is a time to get things done, lots of energy, creativeness, problem solving capacity, and so on. Mild depression is a time to step back from life some and reflect on things objectively, and there is a creative element to that too, but more of a Van Gogh or Edgar Allen Poe type of creativity.

A lot of drama and trauma can set me off however, and I did have one psychotic episode in my life, when I got hit with loss of my father and a betrayal by my fiancee at the same time ('cheating' with a coworker - who was married no less. Home wrecking biatch! I can kind of laugh about it now (at times), it could have been worse: married with children by her, and then a divorce), and copped a "fuck the world" attitude that got out of hand.

Also, studying logic has helped me a lot. It might not control my moods completely, but it keeps me in check from slips from reality, so to speak, by helping to tell me, "this is bipolar related", if something seems weird.

Also, I wondered why BD hadn't been weeded out of the gene pool if it is such a horrible disease, and after coming across the following excerpt, now think that maybe it hasn't, for a good reason?
Some commentators believe that hypomania actually has an evolutionary advantage. People with hypomania are generally perceived as being energetic, euphoric, visionary, overflowing with new ideas, and sometimes overconfident and very charismatic, yet—unlike those with full mania—are sufficiently capable of coherent thought and action to participate in everyday activities. Like mania, there seems to be a significant correlation between hypomania and creativity. A person in the state of hypomania might be immune to fear and doubt and have negligible social and sexual inhibition. People experiencing hypomania usually have a very strong sex drive. Hypomanic people are often the "life of the party". They may talk to strangers easily, offer solutions to problems, and find pleasure in small activities. Such advantages may render them unwilling to submit to treatment, especially when symptoms do not impair functioning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypomania# ... e_benefits
So, it might be a loss to humanity if a cure was found for bipolar, especially if it became standard operating procedure to cure those with it? I'll settle for treatment during times when/if the symptoms are unbearable (hence why I bolded part of the wiki entry).

But back to the short answer, yes I did experience mood stabilization with buprenorphine, and think it, or perhaps at least some sort of analog/offshoot med in the works, should be explored more as an option for treating mood disorders. Its possible it might provide great relief to those with full blown manic depression, so maybe those who suffer greater than others with the disorder, and have had suicide attempts, might be more compliant on such a med as opposed to some of the other meds available, with worse side effects.

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Re: Upcoming Survey on How Suboxone affects Mood Disorders.

Post by sadmother » Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:34 pm

I have a 48 year old son who has been an addict for decades. He is married with three children and three grandchildren. He had lost his last job due to his addiction. He had been on methadone for years and always relapsed. His life was a torture for his family and put his wife and kids thru hell every time he relapsed.
1-1/2 years ago I helped get him to a doctor that put him on suboxone. The high cost was a big issue for me as I struggle to make ends meet. I sacrificed in order to pay for his treatment for the first couple of months. He finally got a new job and eventually health insurance and has remained on the suboxone. The problem is that he just suddenly stopped speaking to me almost a year ago. No explanation, no discussion, no reason, just nothing. Then he started avoiding his sister or speaking to her as well. She knew whatever the reason had nothing to do with her and has just cast off any real concerns about the issue. I however being his mother cannot do that. He is my son after all. I am 70 years old and won't be around much longer. He has never answered my phone calls so I have had to wait until he calls me. Since he no longer calls and won't answer my calls, I just stopped trying and sent him a text letting him know that I would not keep trying. It has taken months before I started thinking that much of this issue might have to do with this drug and it's affect on his brain which is causing the anti-social behavior. This forum seems to be the only place where any mention of others having the same mental process is discussed. My son told his sister that he didn't want to talk to anybody. He has to talk to people to perform his job so how is it that he continues to be employed and speaks to people but won't speak to his mother and sister? His mother in law died and through that entire ordeal of her sickness and death he never once spoke to me about it. I didn't even attend the funeral because he was going to be there and I couldn't handle it. I have only spoken to my daughter in law thru text messaging and she doesn't discuss any mention of him with me. Our side of the family has never been close to my son's wife and family.
I am just wanting to know if his alienation of me could be due to this drug and not something I did. If I did anything to cause this he definitely won't even call me to explain what I did so there is no resolve for me, only a broken heart.

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Re: Upcoming Survey on How Suboxone affects Mood Disorders.

Post by Amy-Work In Progress » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:29 pm

There is no reason to believe that suboxone would have such a large effect on your son's behavior that he would cut off contact with you and his sister.

But that doesn't mean that it's your fault that he has cut off contact with you either. I have empathy for you. I have a son who means the world to me and I would be so upset if he cut off contact. But, while buprenorphine might have some influence over people not being social, it certainly does not make them stop talking to certain relatives.

Many people who are addicts can point to some trauma as a child as the origin of their addiction. Many also seem to have families that are partially or fully dysfunctional. If I were in your situation I would probably look back and think of your son's life in a way that he might view it. If there is something that you should be apologizing for, it may be worth sending your son a letter to do just that, even if he never speaks to you again. If you really think there is nothing to be sorry for, then he may be being influenced by something else.

This is your quote:

"His mother in law died and through that entire ordeal of her sickness and death he never once spoke to me about it. I didn't even attend the funeral because he was going to be there and I couldn't handle it. I have only spoken to my daughter in law thru text messaging and she doesn't discuss any mention of him with me. Our side of the family has never been close to my son's wife and family."

I have to tell you that I see big red flags in this statement. First of all, husbands and wives are supposed to support and cleave to each other once they are married. I know that when my son gets married I will do nothing but love and support his spouse. I would never try to divide his loyalties between me and his spouse. It troubles me that you have never been close to your daughter-in-law and her family. The fact that you didn't attend your son's mother-in-law's funeral because you "couldn't handle it" could be viewed as very selfish and hurtful to him and his wife. Is it possible that he views you as someone who has never supported his marriage and may be self-centered?

You obviously love and care for your son enough to get him help and I admire that very much. When people get into recovery on suboxone they can usually see things clearly for the first time in a while. Just try to think if there is anything about his childhood or your relationship with his wife that could be part of his decision to stop communicating with you. Anything you can think of. Unless they're in a cult, people usually don't drop people from their lives unless it is too painful for them to keep them in it.

I'm not saying that any of these things are true. You could be just like Mother Theresa for all I know. I'm not judging you in the least. However, I am suggesting that you examine your past with your son and his wife, and seeing what you may not have done correctly or well. I plan on being my daughter-in-law's best buddy, just because if that is who my son chose, I want to respect his choice and support both of them. I want to keep getting to see my son and his kids as much as I possibly can, and I can make friends with anyone! I was never super close with my in-laws, but they were very kind to me when my mother died young, and I've never forgotten that. If you haven't apologized to your daughter-in-law for not going to her mother's funeral, it's not too late. I urge you to ask her what you can do to be back in contact with your son. She is probably your best way forward.

I wish you the best in finding a way back to your son. If it doesn't work, shower your daughter with unconditional love and hopefully she will always appreciate her mother. I really miss mine.

Amy
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Re: Upcoming Survey on How Suboxone affects Mood Disorders.

Post by jennjenn » Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:41 am

My mom isn't overly close to my brothers wife. They have a better relationship now after twenty something years, but during my brothers first 5 years or so of his marriage, my sister in law was horrible to my mom. She made everything a competition between her and my mom. It was her being jealous of a bond that my brother had with my mom. I was young when all this happened, but up until that, I had no idea that some women were jealous like that. I remember her talking about my mom and saying awful things that my niece (who was around 3-4) would come bk and repeat to my mom! It devastated her. My mom finally gave up and I can't say I blame her after all the crazy things my sister in law did bk then. My brother was caught in the middle. Eventually after years of that, my sister in law came to our house and apologized to my mother for her behavior. She ended up getting on medication for a chemical imbalance and went to college, now she's a RN. So things are better in that department now but I don't think any of that was my mothers fault, my sister in law was crazy.... honestly she wasn't a nice person for years.

I'm like u Amy, I truly hope that my two sons will see nothing but a wonderful relationship between myself and their future wives. I'd never want to be in a relationship like my mom was in with my sister in law. I'm gonna put forth major effort to make my daughter in law love me lol. U know that saying..... a daughter is a daughter for life, but a son is a son until he takes a wife..... how true this is in a lot of relationships. I wouldn't have ever put the relationship between ur son being possibly strained because of his wife, Amy great job on that because it really makes a lot of sense! I think that could be a big factor why this son isn't communicating very well with his mother.

It could also be a number of things, who knows. Would it be possible that he's using again? Have u said or done anything personal to him that would upset him? I don't know, but I do think it isn't the suboxone. Suboxone wouldn't make a son completely shut out his mother and his sister. No way do I think that. If it were me, I'd be forcing a face to face talk and find out. If I had to be outside his work when he got off, or waiting on his door step, he'd be explaining to me what his issues are. There's no excuse as to why he can't give u an explanation for shutting u out. U deserve answers.
Jennifer

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Re: Upcoming Survey on How Suboxone affects Mood Disorders.

Post by Amy-Work In Progress » Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:59 am

It's true, Jenn. All of those things are possible! It could be that the daughter-in-law is terrible and her mother was terrible and dil's sisters are terrible. The unfortunate thing is that our sadmother has no control over the behavior of those people, just herself. It may have seemed like I'm blaming sadmother, but I'm really not. As I said, she could be as wonderful as Mother Theresa! :)

Anyway, the only reason I was focusing on what sadmother might have done to help cause this rift is because the only person she has control over is herself. I'm also thinking that if sadmother's goal is to get back into her son's good graces, she is the one that's going to have to do the work. And it may very likely involve swallowing her pride, lowering her defenses, and apologizing for whatever he might have taken offense to. Even if it's not her fault! I was trying to offer up ideas of where the tension might spring from, so that sadmother has a place to start from. She may have to be the bigger person if she wants the relationship with her son back badly enough.

I know a little about this from my relationship with my dad. My dad is mostly a good dad and was a great dad to grow up with. I was a daddy's girl for the most part. But one thing I hated about my dad was that he criticized my mom my whole life and threatened to divorce her on a regular basis. My dad made sure that my sister and I knew that we didn't want to grow up and be like our mom (overweight that is). I didn't know until I was 15 about him threatening to divorce her over it. I grew up thinking I was fat the entire time. I look back at pictures of myself and I was a totally normal size, but I thought of myself as fat because of my dad. I went on weight watchers with my mom when I was 10. By 2000, the year I spent a few weeks at my parents house, my dad was saying things to my mom like, "My next wife will be a skinny Asian woman!" It was horrifying to me. Then in 2002 my mom died suddenly. My dad was broken up over her death, but still got on match.com almost immediately and was dating within 6 weeks of her death. He was engaged 3 times in 3 years, always letting the woman know that she wasn't allowed to gain weight after they got married. He finally married a woman who totally agreed with him. She was sanctimonious about all things sweet, fattening, and food with trans fats. She also shared my dad's disgust about fat people.

In part, his hurtful behavior combined with missing and grieving my mom's death, led to my addiction. Being around him was painful, so I would numb myself with percocet, and this started at my dad's house. (I am ultimately responsible for my own behavior and drug addiction.) When I started recovery on suboxone I was back to having to deal with my dad's ugly thoughts, which he shared constantly, and his behavior. I stopped answering his phone calls and visiting. I hadn't officially cut him off, but I was headed that way. I had already told him that they way he talked about overweight people really bothered me and I had asked several times that he not speak that way in front of me. By 2013 I was barely speaking to him. My dad was upset about this. I knew that he loved me, but it was too painful to have contact with him.

So this is what my dad did. First, he told my sister he feared that he was losing me and asked what he could do about it. My sister explained it to him very clearly. For the first time he got it. The next month, after thinking about what my sister said, he called me. I knew that my sister had this conversation with him, so I took the call. My dad called me to apologize. He encouraged me to say anything and everything I needed to get off my chest. He didn't defend himself, he just let me talk. After I had told him everything I wanted to say, my dad apologized again. He said there was no excuse for how he had hurt me, and how he had hurt my mother when she was alive. He told me he loved me (which I knew) and that he promised to stop doing and saying the things that hurt me. (It's been 5 years and he has kept that promise.) I don't hold grudges and I forgave him completely. Since then our relationship has vastly improved. He apologized to me when he was 70 and five years later we are in contact all of the time.

Now, my story may not have any relevance here! And sadmother may not ever have done anything to hurt her son like my father hurt me. But if there is any wisdom that she can take away from my story, I hope it helps her. My dad humbled himself for love of me in a way I didn't know he could. It took away my anger and much of my pain, especially since he has kept his promise. I'm back to being my daddy's girl.

Jenn is absolutely right. It could be that there isn't anything that you've done wrong, sadmom. You son could be influenced by someone to cut you off for no good reason. I just think it's worth thinking about if you hope to be closer to your son. That's where I'm coming from.

Amy
Done is better than perfect!

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Re: Upcoming Survey on How Suboxone affects Mood Disorders.

Post by jennjenn » Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:02 am

I agree with everything u said Amy, it makes sense and I could definitely see how if sadmoms son has been hurt by something she’s said or something from his past.... it makes sense that once he’s entered recovery, there’s some resentment. Totally makes sense and I’m pretty bad about just cutting ppl off and out of my life if I have been hurt by them. Its not a good thing, but I’ve been guilty in the past of just shutting down all communication and be ghost. That does sound like it’s worth checking on or really wracking ur brain sadmom, to figure out is there possibly something he’s holding onto that’s making him act like this.

What I was saying about the daughter in law thing was that some women just dislike the husbands mom. Normally you’d want a good relationship with ur mother in law so it’s difficult to think of but it happens. I guess seeing what my mom went through, knowing how she’d do anything in her power to keep from hurting anyone’s feelings (not just biased because she’s my mom lol she’s seriously the sweetest person ever) and my sister in law was just awful to her. I couldn’t believe that a woman would be so insecure and controlling, to be jealous of their husbands relationship with their mother, it just seems crazy to me. After getting older, I’ve seen it happen with other ppl too and realized it wasn’t exactly uncommon for that to happen. So I just wanted to share that, I was putting sadmom in my moms shoes I guess. U never know, if that’s the possible issue then I still think sadmom needs to hunt her son down and talk to him. No matter what the reason is, I agree that humbling urself and just having a conversation needs to happen.

Amy, we’ve put a lot of thought into this thread lol and so far no response bk from sadmom. I’m hoping it isn’t a one poster and run :) sadmom are ya out there? :)
Jennifer

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