Subutex Baby #2 & avoiding repeat of #1

Will my baby withdraw? Is my baby addicted? Can I have an epidural on Suboxone? Will buprenorphine hurt my baby? Can I breast feed on Suboxone? What medication-assisted treatment is best?
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brittneyazarwel
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Subutex Baby #2 & avoiding repeat of #1

Post by brittneyazarwel »

Hi all. Some of you may remember me... My daughter spent 35 DAYS in the NICU weaning from morphine back in 2017 all supposedly because of Subutex... I knew there was a chance of this but never expected so long. We got her home & within a week she was diagnosed w silent reflux (gerd) that required ppi medication. She also had intolerances (dairy, egg, & corn) & both a lip & tongue tie that we revised at 7 months. Looking back at our NICU stay I 100% believe it was these issues that resulted in her discomfort & not NAS. That's not to say she didn't have any NAS symptoms BUT not to the degree that required medication & a month in the NICU. Many of the symptoms she was being scored on are also reflux symptoms & I think that's why she was medicated so quickly. That & because they knew I was on subutex.

So. I'm pregnant w #2 and due in August. I want to do whatever I can to avoid a repeat of this & am wondering how I might can do that. I'm going to talk to OB and see what my options are for refusing an immediate NICU admission & see if the hospital still treats NAS using the same scoring. I wanted to be off sub before having another baby but it didn't work out that way & I do not want to go thru that again.
docm2
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Re: Subutex Baby #2 & avoiding repeat of #1

Post by docm2 »

I remember your previous posts and the difficulties your family had at the first delivery.
One of the downfalls of the Modified Finnegan score is that many things can mimic opiate withdrawal.
Many systems have abandoned it and are using a system referred to as Eat, Sleep, Console. I have had about 6 moms that have delivered with that being used and none of them ended up in the NICU or on a taper.
It allows babies to be normal and not every little cry, hiccup or tensing up is cause for panic.
Hopefully, by August the hospital you will be delivering at will have instituted this, perhaps you can give the link/information to your OB or the head of the nursery.
https://www.mccofva.com/for-providers/p ... e-toolkit/
Congrats on baby #2, I'll be pulling for you and interested in updates.
PAX
brittneyazarwel
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Re: Subutex Baby #2 & avoiding repeat of #1

Post by brittneyazarwel »

Oh I am sooo happy to hear this! Yes, I 100% believe that while my daughter likely had some withdrawal symptoms she would've been able to come home had Finnegan not been used. I even saw in my old posts how she would always score better when I was with her compared to when she wasn't being held. That's one of the big areas of ESC I think is so important... Keeping baby & mom together.

I came across the ESC protocol in 2017 when going thru all of this & it certainly showed promising results! I think it was just being presented at conferences & implemented in NY hospitals back then.

I asked my OB about the protocol yesterday but he didn't know if it was used yet or not. He did say that if the protocol had shown results & was effective & had been in a national journal that it should be implemented here since they follow national protocol. And I emailed the hospital asking for info from Neonatology & actually missed a call from them yesterday. Expecting to hear back on Tuesday tho. Thanks for responding & giving me a bit of hope! 🥰
DrStacieDPT
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Re: Subutex Baby #2 & avoiding repeat of #1

Post by DrStacieDPT »

Hi Brittney! I have been on subutex for years and cannot stop taking it no matter how hard I tried. My baby was born 2017 and didn’t require Morphine tx I think bc I breast fed him. Maybe you should consider nursing with this baby?

They forced us to stay in the hospital for 5 days to monitor him but the highest he got on Finnegan was a 6 only once.

I am trying to become pregnant again and I don’t know if I can handle seeing my baby go thru that even tho it was only 1-2 days. He was miserable and so was I.

So I don’t know what to do, I am not going to let this stop me from having another baby tho.

Blessings to you for an easy delivery and baby’s healthy.
brittneyazarwel
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Re: Subutex Baby #2 & avoiding repeat of #1

Post by brittneyazarwel »

Hi all! I forgot to come update last year after baby was born. I was induced Aug 17 & Davina Bari arrived a few hours later. My husband & I could tell IMMEDIATELY from her cry that something was different. Our oldest was born & screaming bloody murder right away as if in pain. I thought right away that her cry sounded unlike any baby I'd ever heard. She was easily agitated & hard to settle. Davina tho, she sounded like a normal newborn. She settled down quickly once in my arms & latched awhile & just laid there looking around at us with her dark blue eyes. I could lay her in the bassinet thing & she would just lay there & fall asleep on her own. It was a night & day difference. They left her in the room w me, never having to take her to be monitored. They were scoring her at every few hour checks but she never scored high enough on anything. We went home after 2 days.

She did have tongue & lip tie like her sister & was pretty jaundiced & lost a bit of weight. But we got ties revised & saw chiro to help w nursing on the left side. She wasn't a great nurser & constantly fell asleep. I eventually resorted to EPing & nursing her when I could, mostly at night or for comfort, but after a few months she refused to latch. So I'm still pumping & bottle feeding. She's almost a year old & chunky & perfect.

Looking back I can see that my oldest prob did have some withdrawal symptoms & had we gone home right away we very well could've ended up back in tht hospital later. There was def some discomfort happening. Whether it truly warranted morphine I can't say. It's just crazy how every baby can be so different.
brittneyazarwel
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Re: Subutex Baby #2 & avoiding repeat of #1

Post by brittneyazarwel »

DrStacieDPT wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:00 pm Hi Brittney! My baby was born 2017 and didn’t require Morphine tx I think bc I breast fed him. Maybe you should consider nursing with this baby?

Hi! Oh yes I was giving my oldest BM in the NICU right from the start. At first they didn't want to let me & one nurse even told me I didn't need to pump once I got home bc she viewed my giving her BM as "getting her back on tht medication they were weaning her from". I had to sign a waiver to feed her BM in the NICU. She ended being combo formula & BM fed bc my output while exclusive pumping wasn't sufficient but I was able to increase it with domperidone & provide BM for a year. And doing the same w the new babe.
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